Foxes, badgers, robins and now ELEPHANTS: hidden manifesto plan by Tories to allow ivory trade
Under David Cameron the Conservatives had pledged – along with other UK political parties – to put into place a ban on ivory trading. This follows bans by China, the US and other important ivory trading countries to end domestic trades in ivory by the end of 2017.
But there is no mention of the ban in Theresa May’s Tory 2017 manifesto. Sneakily, the Tories have decided to DROP their previous commitment to introducing a total ban on ivory trade in Britain. This comes after heavy pressure from wealthy antiques traders who have been lobbying Teresa May hard to drop the ban on ivory.
The most powerful UK antique traders association is the British Antique Dealers’ Association – whose president is Tory MP and pal of Theresa May, Lady Victoria Borwick.
On average, an elephant is killed every 15 minutes for its ivory and their population has fallen by almost a third in Africa since 2007.
Interestingly, this policy puts the Tories in direct conflict with Prince William, who has been a vocal supporter of a total ban on ivory sales.
Will we see the Duke of Cambridge campaigning for Labour – which has pledged to introduce the total ban the Prince has been lobbying for?
Pride's Purge 
Well they culling their own stocks through benefits denial aktion t4. Allowing sales of ivory well I wonder could this awake peoples up to a steep to far for the tories
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I wish you could find a way to make a forwardable link to your posts so that I could use them on twitter.
[There should be a line of buttons at the bottom of the blogpost which allow you to post to various social media, including Twitter] – TOM
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Keen to share this but need verification. Please can you point to where in manifesto it is
[Matthew – it isn’t in the manifesto, despite it being a previous commitment under Cameron. It was also in their 2015 manifesto: https://eia-international.org/uk-govt-called-on-to-honour-ivory-ban-manifesto-pledge ] – TOM
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Also reported in antiques trade press
https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2017/breaking-news-tory-2017-manifesto-has-no-explicit-mention-of-ivory/
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Reblogged this on The Greater Fool.
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What are these evil bstards trying to do? There’s not enough elephants around as it is, these Tories are a disgrace to humanity. Maybe could start a trend in carvings WITH TORY BONES.
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I don’t know ,I didnt think anyone was left on planet earth who thought it’s ok, elephants can be killed for trinkets .The omission is probably they can you cant plan (rich can do what they like you know so long as tory.co.uk get a cut)
Hope shes asked on camera if its an oversight or an ‘undersight’ undertable. underhand in the tories case .
Seems they hate animals as well as the poor down at ‘t’ club 🙂
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Elephants numbers are vastly dwindling due to poaching, and the UK still wants to trade in Ivory?? I don’t care who is doing the trading, illegal wildlife traffickers, or antique dealers, Elephants were savagely butchered for their tusks, and nothing about it is right!! I was going to vote for her, but not now, I am an avid supporter of animal rights, specially Rhinos and other endangered species. Someone should get an Elephants rotting carcass, after poachers have taken it’s tusks, and send it to the Houses of Parliament. See who wants to deal in Ivory then. Couldn’t be more disgusted!!!!
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Scum
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May is a false witch and that thing next to her no better
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Pingback: Tories BOW to wealthy antiques dealers and DROP ban on elephant ivory in manifesto | antmcg
Reblogged this on Declaration Of Opinion.
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What is the matter with these evil people they won’t be satisfied till every animal has become extinct
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Is there a petition and/or contacting of these people happening to try and stop this?
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If only elephants had voted Tory they would not be a target for their petty ire.
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Reblogged this on sideshowtog.
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Pingback: Tories BOW to wealthy antiques dealers and DROP ban on elephant ivory in manifesto | sideshowtog
Conservatives are corrupt to the core – make them pay on 8th June.
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Unbelievable. I really cannot express how disgusted I am about this. For this reason alone I will not vote for ypu and I was going to. All the years of campaigning just brushed away in a heartbeat. There soon won’t be any elephants left then it will be too late. How narrow minded and completely stupid. If things like this continue we will just be destroying our planet. It’s disgusting and heartbreaking.
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You stupid human get a grip and keep all bans in place. PLEASE
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Yet another reason why I cannot and will not vote for the conservatives. May is a fool to continue to the pandering of the wealthy. She along with her cronies are clueless about the thoughts of the majority of voters.
Hopefully we will be rid of them soon.
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How many more reasons will there be not to vote conservative? They seem to be popping up like maggoty flies at the moment! I just can’t fathom how any decent person, who actually cares about other people, the environment and other species, can even begin to think of voting for them! The Tories will take us back to dark times.
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Could the Conservatives demonstrate better, how self serving they are, when even China has banned the trade in Ivory.
I hope this bitch meets a just fate, the sooner, the better. Creatures like her are ten a penny, our institutions and Parliament are riddled with leeches like her, but the elephants and our wildlife are precious, doubly so because people will notice their absence(which is more than can be said for aforesaid leeches).
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Reblogged this on Worldtruth and commented:
Could the Conservatives demonstrate better, how self serving they are, when even China has banned the trade in Ivory.
I hope this bitch meets a just fate, the sooner, the better. Creatures like her are ten a penny, our institutions and Parliament are riddled with leeches like her, but the elephants and our wildlife are precious, doubly so because people will notice their absence(which is more than can be said for aforesaid leeches).
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The current ban, bans all ivory made after 1947. This is to stop ancient treasures and Victorian pianos from being destroyed. The Tories just want to keep the current ivory ban in place. But that fact doesn’t fit your bias narrative, does it?
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Disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!! Heartless humans!!!!! Who votes these corrupted W#*+*%%s get them out
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Ed Marsh …if you a right ,then ”we vow to keep the original ban in place” would be written in the manifesto no? not nothing at all .
Who’s biased now sir ?
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or …we vow to not destroy old antiquarian pianos lol
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Why am I not surprised!!..what can be expected from such hypocritical leader…or so she wants to be!!..your choice!
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The Torries would be fools to drop the ban on ivory, the feeling of people with regards to this topic is very strong and will loose them votes. THERESA MAY stop pandering to the rich and sick in the head people who have no regard for our wildlife or this planet. What will they slaughter when there are no Elephants, Rhinos and any other animal that they can make money out of, hopefully themselves. Stop this evil practise.
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Oh my goodness!! How stupid are you guys!!! Keep the ban on ivory!! How dare you exploit animals for your own greed!!!!
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I Will not vote for mrs May if she does not ban ivory form coming into the UK
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The gentle giants of the world. Their lives at the hands of wealthy businessman. Why are the British supporting the Tories at all?
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This article suggests that the issue is of trading in ivory antiques. What’s the problem with that?
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What a disgrace!
Theresa May and the Tory Government are devoid of compassion …
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No antique dealer wants to kill elephants, no antique dealer supports poaching. The only ivory that can be sold in this country is antique and carved. However there are countries, including those in Europe who still permit the trading of tusks, although this is shortly to be outlawed – not before time.
We can and should preserve works of art that are our shared cultural inheritance for future generations, while at the same time doing everything in our power to ensure that these terrible assaults on wildlife do not continue. The next generation need to be able to grow up in a world with healthy herds of elephants.
However, these are not mutually exclusive positions. This is a view expressed by some of our leading museums, such as the Victoria and Albert Museum and the British Museum. As you will be aware many musical instruments contain ivory “tinkling the ivories – playing the piano” comes to mind as well as significant treasures in our churches.
Both elephants and our shared cultural inheritance are there for us all; we need to work together to look after both, and I have no doubt that this is possible.
This gives more information for those who want to know what is happening:
https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2016/uk-ivory-ban-threat-government-will-consult-antiques-industry/
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Wanting the repeal of the Fox hunting ban and now refusing to ban the import of ivory has just lost you my vote Mrs May. You have no heart. Anyone who can be influenced so easily by rich friends is not someone who deserves to be yrusted to run the country.
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So just because the manifesto didn’t mention banning ivory trade that means they’ve dropped their commitment?
They didn’t mention keeping the law of not sending small children up chimneys but it doesn’t mean they’re reintroducing it
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Tandtseo and March, Semantics do not incorporate a deliberate removal of an existing affirmation and therefore, irrelevant to the issue of REMOVAL of the aforesaid and stated ban. This is not an oversight – unless you intend advocating the Tories as sloppy incompetents. In other words – Elephant Manure and yet more distraction/distortion/excuses/double speak/wordplay and talking out of both sides of the mouth.
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Well, I used to look to UK as being a cool place to live. Nah, they are dumb as fuck and the politicians are batshat when they certainly should not be.
But go ahead, they are literally making elephants go tuskless. Evolutionary response to rapid hunting has led to increased births of tuskless elephants throughout central Africa I have heard. So yah, maybe their master plan is to turn their ivory into priceless comodities through the extinction of tusk-bearing elephants. Brilliant.
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Fuck you May you weak, pathetic, bend over for anyone with money, love having your arsehole kicked out by the elite, cunt. I’ve lost all ability to be intelligently articulate on the subject of you anymore- you are quite literally sending us back to medieval England.
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I am a specialist manufacturer of elephant foot umbrella stands. I get four per elephant but since the ivory ban I have to throw the tusks away. What a waste! End the ban now.
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Part of the problem here is the fact that that the ban on trading ivory was as retrospective as it was. Ivory was quite legally traded and there where no major issues with the trade until the late 70’s when it was realised just how quickly the elephant population was declining and the ban in trade came in in 1989. However it has become ileagal to sell ivory produced after 1947. This has created complete market distortion and has I believe helped to create the current situation we find ourselves in. I don’t want to see a return to the sale of new ivory at all, however the trade in ivory produced prior to the ban in 1989 would I feel help to take away the pressure of the ileagal trade.
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Mrs May. This absolutely stinks. You want Foxes Torn to bits by bringing back Hunting. Now you support the ivory trade. You have no respect for Animals. I have no respect for you!
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i am beginning to think Mrs may is trying to loose the election she is trying to upset as meany people as possible ,has she just realised shes not up to the job !!!! .
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Met her once. Dreadful bloody woman. She was bowling up to people, interrupting their conversations, and saying, “Hello, I’m Vicky Borwick”. I didn’t know her from Adam and just thought, “Well, good for you, dear.” She and some other git basically hijacked the event and she was over the moon because she’d just learned she’d won candidacy of some tory safe seat, having previously been Boris’s sidekick at the Mayor’s office.
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Pingback: We have less elephants than Tory MPs in Scotland (none) which is lucky because Theresa has just agreed to turn a blind eye to ivory trading. – Talking-up Scotland
So very, very wrong.
Uphold your party promise and ban ivory trading.
Save the elephants!!!
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Prince William to fight for labour?????!😤 R u crazy???? T M all the way! That’s y they keep each other in power!!😡
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Pingback: Interesting Links for 21-05-2017 | Made from Truth and Lies
Reblogged this on Victories & Victuals.
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@Mark renucci: Why would you come on here and lie through your teeth? Do you really think people are stupid enough to believe that you simply throw away huge quantities of real ivory? Everyone knows that making ivory goods and trading them goes on behind closed doors no matter what the laws say. Grow up and stop trying to seek attention like a small child.
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I think it’s vitally important that we do something about this – after all we have done nothing about these matters :- http://markcurtis.info/2017/05/01/41-uk-foreign-policies-to-forget-about-in-the-uk-election/ – let’s start a petition or write on facebook – that should be enough
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Horrendous if ivory ban is overturned
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These are the ‘educated’ lot?
No. I don’t think so! Get a grip and stop being so selfish, ignorant and greedy!
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Are you right in the head. Those animals can not speak for themselves. How would you like to be hunted down and have your teeth ripped out of your head because someone wanted an ornament. Our hunted down by idiots on horses till your heart gives out and ripped to bits by hounds for sport it’s not how respectable humans behave. DISGUSTING….
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It’s ok just ruin our planet and all beautiful creatures on it! Thick bitch! I would kill you myself and if you do get in, I hope everyone does come together to take this bitch down! Old people, the poor, the starving, the foxes and now elephants! Fuck off you fucking disgusting piece of trash is what she is and the thing next to her!
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I’ll just post this link for everyone to read then you can ask yourself the question, why would you put something in a manifesto that is already being done? Do some research before believing everything you see!
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-ban-on-modern-day-ivory-sales
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”The government will consult with environmental groups, industry and other relevant parties to establish how and when a ban could be introduced, as well as any necessary exemptions, early next year.”
from sept 2016 means this half of the year 2017 (so not done ) and needs to be done and in a manifesto.
Unless the link ‘to done’ is hidden somewhere ?
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how and when and could be ? is this strong and stable britain talk ?
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Whilst I do not disagree with your reasoning, I would like a greater understanding in the ways the illegal market is benefiting from the ban against ivory obtained prior to the cut off date. Do you have a link or a site where this matter has been under discussion?
Thanks.
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kenya for instance want a complete ban old and new,they even burn all their ivory to stop it …this quote is one of the reasons why so
”In 1989, in order to protect these animals from being killed for their ivory, a ban was introduced on buying and selling ivory to different countries. It helped the numbers of elephants in the world to go up again.
But since then, the illegal ivory trade has not stopped. Poachers are still killing elephants for their tusks and the ivory is being sent around the world by networks of criminals. It is often mixed in with legal ivory so that people can’t tell the difference between the two.”
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Im with Kenya and ban the lot.
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Last bit from me is ,there are plenty of antiques for dealers to play money with in the world that are not animal based there is no need for them (of all people) to deal in it and they really should be the ones shouting ban it. At least from international sales .
,,,bottom line for me is ..I got 200 million quid spare so I need to spend it on something old, isn’t justification to create a killing market. In turn I expect my voice (ie my democratically voted) to say so at election time and put it in their vows to get my vote. Not omit it on the grounds it may when maybe 37 years from now because we discussed it once with proposals.
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Lol
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Can’t stand ignorant or arrogant people 🙂
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Please don’t destroy nature by killing animals for petty things.
This planet is as much theirs as ours.
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Mr Pride is a trolling, misleading, idiot! Yes idiot, he seems to think Cameron was PM on 21 September 2016 when Andrea Leadsom issued a press release announcing “plans to help bring an end to illegal elephant poaching and ivory trafficking” (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-ban-on-modern-day-ivory-sales). And he thinks that an ommission of a previous written commitment means the “Tories have decided to DROP their previous commitment to introducing a total ban on ivory trade in Britain.” (note his emphasis on “DROP”!) This is not the first time I have seen this man make misleading posts and no doubt he will continue to do so. The colour of his politics is clear … if he was really concerned about the elephants he would not use them as the tool to remark about “wealthy” dealers and make derogatory inferences such as “pal of Theresa May”. Nope, sorry people, he doesn’t care about the elephants, he just want to use them to score political points. Get wise to him, he is playing with your emotions.
[Idiocy is all yours I’m afraid. It’s really very simple. The commitment for a total ban was never implemented by the Tories, despite being in the 2015 Tory manifesto under Cameron. The commitment is no longer in the Tory manifesto under Theresa May, which means it has now been dropped by Theresa May.] – TOM
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Its fake news. Its not in this manifesto because its already implemented. But don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story…
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-ban-on-modern-day-ivory-sales
[That’s previous policy – and it’s not a total ban. The Cameron government committed to a total ban at the last election but never implemented it. Since then, the US and China have agreed to total bans. Despite that, the commitment for a total ban by the UK has now been dropped by Theresa May in the latest Tory manifesto. It’s not difficult to understand. Nice try. ] – TOM
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if she really allows this she is at the same bloody low level as Don Dumb
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I’m so sick of all the greed in this world !!! Leave the beautiful elephants and all animals alone. Making a profit over dead animals is evil, depraved and callous !!!!! Do something decent in your life instead of slaughtering animal species into extinction. This isn’t the Dark Ages !!!
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This is horrible. I hope that Prince
William and others will reverse
This decision. Shame on anyone
That will support the blatant
Destruction of an entire species for a
Body part. You were not given life
To be the responsible party to cause
This .
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This is horrible. I hope that Prince
William and others will reverse
This decision. Shame on anyone
That will support the blatant
Destruction of an entire species for a
Body part.
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Ian Fraser. Thanks for the link have reproduced an element of it here:
“..The government will consult with environmental groups, industry and other relevant parties to establish HOW AND WHEN A BAN COULD BE INTRODUCED, as well as any necessary exemptions, early next year.
The CITES CoP17 will take place in Johannesburg, South Africa from 24 September to 5 October 2016.
I think it worth mentioning that the HOW AND WHEN need clarification since this item has now been removed from the agenda.
Trying not to let the truth get in the way of the truth
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Isn’t that what both sides of the aisle do. An example might be the promise of £350 million to the NHS if we left the EU. It was a lie of course, intended to mislead, but that’s politics. Throwing your dollies out of your pram won’t change the fact that politicians lie at the drop of a hat. As do the MSM. Everything the MSM prints must be taken with a pinch of salt regarding it’s veracity(if it has any) so when is fake news fake and when is fake news not. Should we have a contest to see which side manages to accrue the most lies?
Oops, the jury is already out on that one. The MSM wins hands down. We know the MSM are handsomely paid trolls, you fund this site often?
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The link you give dates back to September 2016 when the government announced (Leadsom)it would be in discussions in EARLY 2017, on how and when to bring the ban in. What many on this site want to know is why an issue that as yet has not been resolved, received no mention in a Tory Manifesto. It is now middle May 2017 and no such ban has been agreed or introduced. Would you have us believe(because the Tories always keep their promises, at least all but 10 of the twelve made by Cameron) that some muddle headed clerk decided to OMIT any mention of this International Treaty based (CITES) “promise” from the Conservatory Manifesto?
Just how gullible does the Tory Government think we are? Don’t answer that, on the grounds that it might make you look a total prat, depending on your answer.
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How could she do this is nothing sacred foxes, badgers now elephants, this is not a caring lady, does she not understand the implications
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So what’s going to be done about banning the ivory trade? We have to go higher above her head to get this accomplished
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If she lets fox hunting go on and the ivory trade,she has lost my vote.she is pandering to thd rich .it is not on.she is going to lose a lot of votes.
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Reblogged this on PenPaperAction!.
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Is this fake news, as some are suggesting?
[Afraid not. Now the mainstream press are picking up on my observation: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-quietly-ditch-manifesto-promise-10470431?service=responsive ] – TOM
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Reblogged this on LibDem Fischer.
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Thanks Tom. Appreciate the update with the Mirror news report regarding this
Also found here. News just in today.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/21/theresa-may-drops-ivory-ban-from-conservative-party-manifesto-6651853/
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well done Tom 🙂
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For a ‘leader’ to be so flippantly ignorant of an international highly publicised issue is, at the very least, a sackable offence. Gross professional misconduct also springs to mind. So we as a country will now be considered a good place to trade mostly illegally obtained ivory produce……..well done May, well done. You misguided fucking imbacile. 😠😠😠😠😠.
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I think this is called libel? Asserting that they sanction something by not mentioning it, is as ridiculous as me saying the Tom Pride or Neil Franks, Green Party activist (who seems keen on sharing this tosh) are pedophiles because they didn’t mention last week that they’re not. So using their own rationale, maybe they are?
[OK. Let’s take your dodgy analogy and run with it. So I pledge to ban paedophila in my previous 2015 manifesto, I go on to win the election but for some reason I don’t implement my manifesto pledge and paedophilia goes on unpunished. Then, I decide to completely drop even my original pledge to ban paedophilia in my present manifesto, and paedophilia still continues unpunished, despite in the meantime it being banned by just about every other nation on earth. Good analogy. Thanks. As for libel – I await a letter from Ms Borwick or Ms May’s lawyers, but I won’t be holding my breath. ] – TOM
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Is this ABSOLUTE FACT or have the media twisted it round????
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I think you will find asserting that they are not doing something is the key here . Rest your case Nigel by linking the link to ‘Ban is done and total; here in the UK and what special cases are allowed .
Why Toms blogs get so much assertions and fuss is anyones guess …if hes wrong ..Its always a good thing,if hes right then its a godsend someone is bothering to look and ask why is it not .
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This Tory behaviour is repugnant. I am appalled. The mere idea of killing an elephant for profit is unacceptable. Britons must rise against such blows to decency.
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Gaye…its absoloute fact its not mentioned in Mays manifesto yes.
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The worst that can come out of this is the gov will speed up the total ban to put any doubt of their intensions at rest. The best is it will be put back in and a time to do it stated.
Whats the issues here about why May may or may not have left it out ? and who gives a shit so long as the elephants (who actually alive are worth something ) only dead to some idiotic market and valuing scheme.are left alone .
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Pingback: Why would Theresa May ditch a pledge to ban ivory trading? – The Circular Economist
The only ivory that can be sold in the UK is antique and carved. We can and should preserve works of art that are our shared cultural inheritance for future generations, but we must do everything in our power to ensure that these terrible assaults on wildlife do not continue. Our children and grandchildren are entitled to grow up in a world with healthy herds of elephants
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And now the poor Elephants under threat AGAIN !!!! Along with our own beautiful wild life in the UK.
Tories …… Get your act together.
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Please don’t. Enough!! Stop the Insanity toward our dwindling Wild Life!! Don’t become Godless Souls
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Just another blow to animals! What with Trump and now May we will have no planet or animals for our future generations! There will be nothing left to protect!
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What a lot of people fail to understand, is that nowadays the poachers know that one of the many anti poaching patrols will quickly find a poached carcase ~ and they may get caught. What alerts the anti poaching patrols to the presence of a carcase, is the presence of the world’s invaluable ‘clean up squad’ in the form of vultures, circling overhead.
The importance of the presence of all vulture species cannot be overstated ~ yet many of them are now critically endangered as a result of poaching. The poachers poison the carcases specifically to kill the vultures so they don’t gather in great numbers in the skies above the carcases and thus alert the authorities to poaching activity in the area. A single poisoned carcase often results in the deaths of around a hundred vultures ~ plus hyenas, lions and leopards.
Theresa May ought to be made aware of the REAL extent, and continuing cost to Africa of the ivory trade. It’s about time that people like Lady Victoria Borwick and her ilk were sat down and told a few home truths ~ like the fact that their continued pursuance of greater wealth by continuing to trade ivory [even by trading old ivory] is responsible in part for continued organised poaching, and the widespread death by poisoning of many species of other indigenous wildlife.
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WAIT THOUGH. Is this antique ivory (on 1700s flintlock pistols for example) or fresh poached ivory we’re talking about?
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When is this FAKE news going to stop ?
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PcGenie. The baan agreed by China, the US and supposedly Britain was aimed at tackling the new ivory that keeps making it’s way among old stock piled supplies and is being used. The ban that CITES wants is a total ban on any further stockpiled ivory(which it obviously isn’t)since Kenya for instance, burns all it’s recovered ivory. Tanzania does too. Ms. May, along with the other countries agreed to address the problem by discussing the issue with various institutions on how and when to implement a further ban in “early 2017”. This has still not been done. The promise made in September 2016 has been put on the back burner and because it has now been removed from the Manifesto, the government cannot be held to account for a promise that is not given in that manifesto. Hence why so many people are angry.
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Eagle 1 .
There is nothing fake about Tom’s news in this instance. The promise by Ms. May in September 2016, was to enter into discussion on how and when to bring about the ban in EARLY 2017. It is now middle of May and unlike your timepiece mine keeps track of which part of the year we are in!
No discussions have taken place and the intended ban and agreement reached is not only no further forward but it has been removed from the Tory Manifesto. This means, that the Tories will be under no obligation to keep the verbal promise they made in 2016, nor take any further action in 2017, let alone keep the promise of the ban as outlined in the summit meeting.
So what exactly, in Tom’s article, is FAKE?
Show me the mention of this Elephant Ivory ban in the Tory manifesto and please supply a link. Otherwise, stop making false allegations against Tom Pride and button it!
Your comment is commonly referred to as TROLLING and usually accompanied by FAKERY.
Let me know if you are unable to comprehend the difference between fake news, which is reporting something untrue(as in, there IS a mention in the Tory Manifesto of the proposed new ban) and those who offer a rebuttal which is untrue,(fake news) as in there is NO mention in the Tory Manifesto of the proposed new ban).
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Teresa May you are one sick person. I hope you never ever get into power.
Killing and and acts of cruelty on defenceless animals? Your for this? You DO NOT get my vote.
Think again lady. I really believe you do not want to win the election. You have seen what’s it’s like to be a PM and could not hack it. Your only option was for another election. Your afraid of Brexit and want another party to take over. Your not fit to lead the country.
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mohandeer …very well put 🙂
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Those Jewish antique dealers have to make a living too!
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ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING! VILE AND SHAMEFUL!
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Pingback: Why would Theresa May ditch a pledge to ban ivory trading? |Daily Green World
Another reason not to vote for them. I realise that in the grand scheme of things it might to some seem of little importance but it is and money ,again, wins out. Shame on you
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Very clever sensationalist reporting here, with a headline designed to grab attention and illicit an immediate knee-jerk emotional response from people that care too much yet think too little.
No ban is being dropped.
A pledge to commit to an increased level of ban seems to be missing.
It is and will continue to be illegal to kill elephants and trade their ivory whether this pledge has or hasn’t been dropped.
If the increased ban comes into force it will just make it illegal to trade in items made out of ivory from before 1947.
So yes, feel free to be offended for all the elephants that were killed over 70 years ago but I don’t think your outrage will really help them.
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I will not stop campaigning for all animals, particularly elephants and every human should do the same, we cannot be human if we’re not humane!
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Steve rance,,missing nothing and nothing to do with emotion….fact ,where there is a market there will be takers . Ivory ban for all international sales will stop the poaching,,hence govs around the world are listening to the elephant countries who are calling for an outright ban .
Pledged in 2015 con manifesto …not yet applied ,not in 2017 manifesto. Why ?
well from here on in some might suggest speculation and assumption …
but missy viccy would like to continue to international trade in it (with cert ) ,missy May would like to see the revenue . The elephants alive today would like an outright ban,the ”emotional” would like an outright ban ,the looney left would like an outright ban,the animal lovers would like an outright ban,the vultures would like an outright ban,the hyenas would like an outright ban,those against a killing market would like an outright ban…..where was I ? oh yes vote time ,not in manifest ,no pledge to see it through..’sensational’ indeed .
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m against the senseless killing of elephants for their ivory, who wouldn’t be?
I just think it’s a bit confused to imply that May is some way supports the killing of elephants and spread an outright lie that she has dropped a ban. It looks like she has dropped a pledge to increase an already existing ban, a ban that will continue to be in place. No ban has been dropped and to imply it has is sensationalist at best and lying at worst.
“Tories bow to wealthy antiques dealers and drop pledge to increase ban of antique ivory sales in manifesto” would seem a more accurate headline. Doesn’t sound as good though and is less likely to invoke a highly emotional response.
“Ivory ban for all international sales will stop the poaching” – of course it won’t stop it, it may make it harder for poachers to sell, it may drive it more underground but it won’t stop it at all. Elephants will still be poached regardless of any level of ban.
Heroin is illegal, cocaine is illegal and there is an international ban of all sales of those drugs. I’m sure if I wanted to I could go out and score some pretty easily though.
Drink driving is illegal. It does happen though. An increased ban by lets say lowering the limit to 0mg won’t stop it. Banning drinking won’t stop it. Banning driving won’t stop it.
Banning the sale of antique ivory will not stop the killing of elephants.
Killing poachers will stop the killing of elephants and I’m all for that.
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Disgusting my vote will not go her way unless this is removed.
How dare she allow the beautiful elephant to be killed!!!
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Steve ,I see the point of May ‘wants dead elephants’link ,but the report is not ‘an outright lie’. the conclusion of a few maybe ,the report is an outright truth.’Its not in the manifesto’.
I believe and Im not alone it will decrease the poaching vastly if its an outright international ban if not stop it altogether as there is absoloutly no point in, ”cover of the night” smuggling as it would need a (superillious singleton richy) to buy it illegaly .
Heroine and guns is a different matter as one is extreemly profitable to said richies and the other is extreemly profitable on the black market due to mass abuse. Ivory has no such use (unless a murder weapon is created or mass hypnotic up we go out of it). Also the elephant countries are the ones who want this ..ours isnt a elly country ,you may have noticed ,so theoretically they have the problem and we have the democracy to help.
Its not in the manifesto ,,thats basically all you need to know here .its a revenue thing for the tory party gov,those in favour of money over life wont really give a shit ,those who do care life over money will .
Emotional sensationalism vs robot 10p counting…your view vs mine if you like.
Elly wants mine steve 🙂
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ps the argument ‘the gov is already discussing ‘when how maybe could be’ as the pledge (wonder why they did that ?) has not been kept as yet ,reasons for possible delay ? Lets ask viccy and miss May .I say, great reporting as we can now ask can’t we ..the lot of a reporter eh ,who’d have it 🙂
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@Steve Rance:
“….The ban agreed by China, the US and supposedly Britain was aimed at tackling the new ivory that keeps making it’s way among old stock piled supplies and is being used. The ban that CITES wants is a total ban on any further stockpiled ivory(which it obviously isn’t)since Kenya for instance, burns all it’s recovered ivory. Tanzania does too…..”
That is what the talks in 2016 were about – the trading of any ivory, nothing to do with the original ban, something now no longer being acknowledged in the Tory manifesto.
Tanzania and Kenya and I believe S.Africa are all requesting that any ivory stocks be burned and the trade of any supposedly “old” ivory be stopped since this is how the new ivory is being smuggled. The black market will always exist, but by clamping down on the trade and export/import, the smugglers will no longer be able to offer counterfeit authenticity as an excuse to evade prosecution and hopefully, if all parties stick to their promise(which is not mentioned in the Tory manifesto)stiffer penalties under the law of contraband(which is different in every country) so that prosecutions have a broader scope to include people found having ivory as being accomplices to an illegal trade(as in receiving stolen goods). This way, not only do the poachers receive harsher penalties, but so does anyone owning ivory not declared. You seem to have missed the nuances completely in your fervent desire to support the Tories, personally I don’t give a fig who is turning a blind eye to the many ways the existing ban is deficient, the elephant comes first, not some political party. If the other party will keep the promises and bring in the ban, they are my preferred choice(Green SNP or Labour).
Since we already have plenty examples of the Tory disdain for not only other countries wildlife, but our own here in the UK and witnessed the Fox Hunting ban introduced under a Labour Government(despite threats by Conservative MP’s to have it set aside)it is rather foolish to accept on good faith, any promise Ms. May made in Sept. 2016 to be adhered to if the Tories are under no obligation to do so, by using the excuse of the fact that it was not in their manifesto.
We will not stop all ivory trade and elephants being slaughtered, but this new agreement, if implemented properly, would make it a much more dangerous proposition, not just to the poachers but to the markets and people dealing in it.
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I was just thinking about why anyone was left in this country that thought fox hunting was jolly good fun …I came to the conclusion that if the tories even brought up the matter as something to debate and or vote on ,they really are a sick and twisted mentallity ,working for the same. Whats next off them, lets bring back a club only vote on seal bashing for fun too..soo funny to see them wee thereselves before being smashed to death, no ? . It’s like every moral fiber has been stolen off everyone here and replaced with 10p.
Please all think what this organization of sickening neglect for everything except money will mean and vote tactics to rid ourselves of the shame . Then if we arn’t happy with next biggest club,,lets rid them asap and vote for someone else on en mass. Democracy is a choice ,lets use it ,and if tory get back in ..I am moving abroad as I can no longer stomach living with this twisted crap.
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I’m liking that there’s a discussion going on about this, it’s adult and imo the way it should be handled.
I’m not a tory fanboi but dislike this kind of reporting as all it does is bring out many comments akin to “Fuck the government, save the elephants, how dare they be so evil” There’s no thinking behind that, it’s just a response based on feelings and not fact. If that’s the depth of thought many people are capable of now that truly worries me more than anything to do with elephants.
Comparing this to a reversal of the ban on fox hunting as many have done is irrelevant, they are 2 totally separate issues – a fox ban is overturning something that exists and will no doubt lead to a cruel death for many foxes. I don’t agree with overturning it, it’s barbaric the way it’s carried out and people that enjoy it need a good kicking. Having said that I would support any farmer who shoots a fox that is killing his lambs or chickens. A farmer can shoot my dog if he thinks it is worrying his sheep, he should be able to do the same with a fox. If I see a fox attacking my cat or dog in my garden I will kill that fox if I catch it without a second thought and with no remorse. I like foxes, I also like lions but getting slightly sidetracked…
Mohandeer, you bring up good points which if I’m honest I had not considered. I didn’t know there was this problem with ‘stockpiled ivory’ as you say, if there is then I think the ‘elephant’ countries don’t necessarily have the sole responsibility but definitely have the biggest opportunity to deal with it and nip it in the bud so to speak. Then again I understand there is already a ban in place on this new stuff being traded anyway? If the stockpiles being traded are 70 years old then elephants are proper screwed if poachers have been killing them for 70 years just to stockpile ivory and not make any money from it.
My question is are antique dealers running around buying up this fresh uncut ivory and selling it on for profit? Of course that’s wrong if it’s the case and will be creating a market for ivory. Should antique dealers trading in legit ‘worked’ ‘old’ ivory pieces be punished for the activities of the criminal element? Should it be illegal to own a piano made in 1910 with ivory keys? Or just illegal to sell it? When grandma dies and you find a chess set / cutlery set / letter opener made from ivory in the attic that has been sitting there for 80 years should you be allowed to sell it to an antique shop or should it be declared and destroyed?
The fact (if true) that there are stockpiles around would suggest that the supply has already exceeded the demand or that the product is too ‘hot’ to move around. Existing ban must be working then?
But elephants are still being killed….poachers don’t give a fuck about ivory sales, you could bring back the death penalty for owning any kind of ivory and I think poachers will still poach for years until it has any effect on the ‘market’ as can already be proved if there are stockpiles around. Shoot the poachers, solve the problem at the source.
To clarify my position on all of this:
Killing elephants – bad should be illegal and severely punished.
Trading new ‘uncut’ ivory – bad should be illegal and severely punished.
Trading old ‘uncut’ ivory – bad should be illegal and severely punished.
Trading items made from new ivory – bad should be illegal and severely punished.
Trading antiques made from old ivory – should be legal but closely monitored.
So do we agree or disagree with my viewpoint on those 5 positions above?
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I agree with 4 . and as the 5th is the issue I believe its already the case and doesnt work anywhere near enough to drop it from the manifesto…’point of the blog’. and should be pushed by ‘our voices’ until its above and beyond and working ..its called ‘world leaders in ‘
I also agree with the ‘fox scenario’ you suggested and saying its irrelevant to this issue …like heronie dealing .
Still a twisted mentallity link can be made also albeit ’emotional ‘ on the present cabinets mentality.
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lol sorry heroin…my spelling is bad 😦
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Here is what this ‘kind of reporting’ you don’t like could achieve
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/02/06/britain-could-become-first-country-world-ban-sale-ivory-antiques/
Hence I like
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It’s the last reason that the summit agreements were concerned with. Tanzania and Kenya already have a shoot to kill policy towards all armed poachers. Wildlife officers are killed every year. The market for ivory still exists because of the many loopholes and countries willing to ignore the CITES agreements. I can only tell you what I have gleaned from various sites I visit. Much of the newly poached ivory is getting past existing Customs arrangements for several reasons(backhanders by port officials) vast coastlines where landing craft can be moored, the ease with which new ivory can be made to look old and so forth. The antique dealers are keen to help, but it is unfair that they should be held solely responsible since they only buy already finished articles – so there job will be to make sure that they have genuine provenance. Providing they have done due diligence then the dealer who they bought from would be next in line and backwards it goes in a process of elimination – right back to the chaps who paid the poachers. It’s all about authenticating the ivory’s dateline. At the moment, we do not have customs who are numerous enough, trained in the identification of CITES protected goods and livestock and port authority’s cannot watch the whole coastline. This applies globally but each country that joins and agrees to implement the renewed push back, can help reduce the ivory trafficking. Recently Vietnam, Taiwan and Korea also tightened their surveillance against the illegal imports of CITES listed products/livestock. Although there is a great deal of cooperation currently, we need cross border agreements and points of contact for ministers of the interior etc. If, however, this agreement is not pursued vigorously in a timely fashion, then nothing changes for the elephant at least.
The headline Tom used is not unreasonable. If this verbal agreement May signed up to in 2016 is not mentioned in the manifesto, then she cannot be held liable for any lack of implementation (which is why no-one could tackle her on the basis of non implementation of a manifesto pledged article). We still won’t be able to either, for the next five years, if she chooses to drag her heels. THAT is why it should have been included in the manifesto.
It isn’t just elephant ivory that should concern us. The UK pet trade is still dealing in critically endangered monkeys etc the duc (douce) and silky langurs in cages in Britain.
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Steve Rance, didn’t have your comment in front of me, agreed with your list 100% but the response I gave you was probably long winded and might even have been muddled as far as a reply to your query. Sorry about that.
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I dont agree with number 5 on list as its not working and any future discussions have been left off the table .
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Number 5 should be ”total ban” outright on any and all ivory international trading ,with very long prison sentence for anyone trying to do so.
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but I’m obviously a looney lefty with life over money and items issues.
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Bit pressed for time so will just whack a couple of thoughts down here…
Mohandeer, think you hit the nail on the head I think with the lack of resources and corruption comment. An increased ban would solve neither of those problems in my opinion, might help a bit but not eradicate. So what is the solution, more money for customs, yet where does that come from?
Jo, your link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/02/06/britain-could-become-first-country-world-ban-sale-ivory-antiques/ is interesting reading but I would take issue with “the US has introduced a near-total ban.”
https://www.fws.gov/international/travel-and-trade/ivory-ban-questions-and-answers.html
There’s hardly a near-total ban in the US, seems about the level I would be happy with apart from the sport-hunting trophies allowed.
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Like you say steve,it all boils down to money and if the antique dealers like viccy were promising ‘x’ profit would go to said customs (education inc) then that would be ok with me as trying to prevent as many deaths as possible is ok and making money off the backs of animals (as with trees) its only fair you put something back.
May only needs to reconsider and put it back in the pledges of important things to do for the people who vote for her and want it pursued. Thats democracy and also humanity in tandum.
Back to the issue at hand …why left out ,because obvious May feels enough is being done by UK gov and antique dealers and customs a ect when all actually involved are saying its not enough as its getting worse,so much so its now an international issue.
Viccy has answers as to why keep it as is (keepsakes) and May has revenue issues,reality of human money use also leans towards ‘us first’ them later … but to leave it out altogether is not just a 2 finger salute to the elephants, wildlife and those involved in trying to stop poaching but to her voters who want as much done as is possible and if possible even more. To me the even more makes a good to great leader ,leaving it out altogether is at very best unthinking and worst not caring…so now we have to ask her (those who care that is) which is it please Mrs T ?
Toms observation here was well founded in forcing that question in her ears.imo
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Oh and US policy is hmmm at the best of times and I don’t really care what they want to be seen as ,I want us to be seen as ‘doing our uttermost ‘ to quote most MP’s ..as I can then feel I belong to a great nation of caring adults.
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Thanks for the links Steve. Made for interesting reading. As for funding – that is probably the real reason why the Conservatives left the pledge off the manifesto. Spot checks of antique ivory in order to assess the isotopes and other information gathering techniques, would require funding, the big auction houses can afford to generate income, so can buyers and dealers, but the funding for the rest? Everything to do with the state utilities and services are being deprived of funds, so this is one good reason to pay lip service only to the ivory problem.
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Reblogged this on nearlydead and commented:
The Tories are just plain evil
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