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Perhaps the Cameron government should be more careful before labelling Jeremy Corbyn a national security ‘threat’ just for saying Trident should be scrapped.
Because there are several influential people in the Tory Party who think Trident should be scrapped too.
Former Conservative Defence Secretary Michael Portillo agrees with Jeremy Corbyn:
“Our independent nuclear deterrent is not independent and doesn’t constitute a deterrent against anybody that we regard as an enemy. It is a waste of money and it is a diversion of funds that might otherwise be spent on perfectly useful and useable weapons and troops. But some people have not caught up with this reality.”
And Tim Montgomerie – who has been called one of the most influential Tories outside the cabinet – has also floated ditching Trident (from the Times last March):
In fact, in 2009 Montgomerie praised the willingness of the Tory Party to discuss the scrapping of Trident as “tough thinking”.
Veteran Tory MP and former Tory Party chairman David Davis has also questioned the affordability of Trident.
And before he was Prime Minister, David Cameron himself refused to rule out scrapping Trident.
But it’s not just senior Tories who agree with Corbyn.
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, General Lord Ramsbotham, General Lord Ramsbotham and General Sir Hugh Beach have denounced Trident as “irrelevant”.
And in 2009, that well-known hotbed of radical socialism, the Daily Telegraph discussed reasons why Trident should be scrapped.
Even the Daily Mail has in the past pondered getting rid of Britain’s nuclear deterrent.
OK. I think I’ve just about got the hang of this Trident discussion thing now.
Scrapping Trident is only a threat to national security when it’s proposed by Jeremy Corbyn?
UPDATE: Oh shit. Our nuclear deterrent runs on Windows XP. No, really, it does.
Pride's Purge 
Reblogged this on disabledsingleparent.
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Tweeted @melissacade68
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The yanks have been telling the UK to stop Trident and spend the money on conventional weapons and equipment. UK’s Northern border is completely open to a Russian Fleet and the last one which sailed up was invisible until a Scottish fishing trawler sent the info viw Facebook. Letwin scrapped the long range ocean surveillance aircraft. They borrowed American and French Aircaft recently to track Russian Subs.
The Nuclear bomb is a dick waving exercise to get a seat on the UN Security Council and a wee reason to have photo opps with the US President and get a hurl in AirForce 1. Nothing more.
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Sorry It was Liam Fox, not Oliver Letwin who was the Minster 1/c Defence when they were scrapped.
Easy mistake with Tories
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Scrapping trident is a great idea what is stupid is building trident but without nuclear weapons , what is about the UK, spending billions on aircraft carriers but no planes , now Corbyn wants to build new trident subs but no missiles. Think the word is delusional , still think they are world superpower but with the spending power of the Faroes.
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Reblogged this on sdbast.
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Pingback: Not just Jeremy Corbyn – senior Tories also think ditching Trident might be a good idea | paulh121
Nice point. If possible, would you be kind enough to point me towards a source for the trawler anecdote?
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It was several years ago and was in a newspaper article in Scotland. It was a Russian battle group which moved int towards Scotland to take refuge from a storm and was spotted by a fishing boat. I think this was the time the RN sent up a boat from SW England which was not fully operational and it broke down on way up, arriving after many of Russian Boats had moved on.
The Navy Lark springs to mind.
There have been several surface “intrusions” and this could be it.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-16175285
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Calling in Nato to plug aircraft gap in N Atlantic
https://www.rt.com/uk/323095-submarine-scotland-russia-search/
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Cheers Panda.
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Reblogged this on Radiation Free Lakeland and commented:
many people in Barrow also think Making Weapons of Mass Destruction should be scrapped including I suspect those who otherwise support Barrow MP John Woodcock
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Getting rid of Trident is awesome. But this “keeping the submarines with no missiles” idea? Ill-advised.
We need to stop snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. We can only blame the media so much – look at Trump, he’s an utter bastard, ugly, evil, and everyone hates his guts – but he manages to get, if not good ink, positive attention.
Any Labour politicians reading this would be well-advised to follow this link and read it – particularly the bit around this line:
http://www.redstate.com/diary/morton_c_blackwell/2010/10/01/the-real-nature-of-politics/
“You owe it to your philosophy to study how to win. You have a moral obligation to learn how to win.“
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The Twitter / Facebook thing definitely was going around public media at the time and may have been uttered in Parliament as well. Probably quietly ignored by MSM. There is a Russian nuclear submarine sitting doggo off N Ireland and West Scotland and there has been for decades.
https://www.rt.com/uk/323095-submarine-scotland-russia-search/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11334836/MoD-forced-to-ask-US-for-help-in-tracking-Russian-submarine.html
maybe aye maybe naw to second.
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Is not a Deterrent when British Prime Minister would have to go Cap in Hand to the American to get access codes to fire the rusty buckets. See Fukushima for an example.
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re “independent” nuclear weapons.
Unlock codes are de[pendent on USA.
Missiles are serviced in USA.
Nuclear reactors are under licence , form USA.
It really is an outsourced US weapon for which the US does not pay us to do and we pay them for privilege of serving their ends
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Ace. That’s plenty to get me started off. I write slowly, sporadically, and occasionally; but the blog entry these relate to will appear eventually, and will contain a shout out to you. Cheers.
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Let me know via Twitter
@buggerLePanda
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Pingback: Not just Jeremy Corbyn – senior Tories also think ditching Trident might be a good idea | Pride’s Purge | Vox Political
In the autumn I heard a public lecture at the University of Newcastle by the British former commander of forces in Afghanistan and who advise the collation on the changes require to the management of politicking in England and Wales. He argued that a fundamental different approach was required to out approach to defence and security and to involvement outside the UK if and when required. the renewal of the Trident delivery of nuclear weapons was not only unnecessary but inappropriate although he suggested that we needed to keep with out knowledge of effective technology of nuclear bomb making and delivery strategy… and although he did not I took implicit he also included our keeping up through research and intelligence the technology of no building destructive technology that is the technology of destroying populations by chemical and biological means particular that which allows the use of buildings and exploitation of the land and its resources without having to wait generations as with the use of anthrax..
As with bombing of Syria that was a purely political gesture by Cameron and also political tactic in terms of creating last hostility towards a Corbyn led administration where past experience says that position are adoption with the first 100 days of any new Party leadership. What Cameron failed to appreciate as did Labour in Scotland is there is now a great shift in public opinion about Parliament about the two party political cartel. At another level it is about Cameron pushing the EEC referendum when he thought he would not have to do it and the panic now as he realises we will not vote by a significant majority to leave whatever he says he ahs achieved and who is out up to persuade us to stay in. Even a positive stay in call from Mr Corbyn will only reduce the size of the exit vote. Cameron’s only hope is to stall the vote although he may well throw in the to and say the deal is not good enough and join the out vote to personally stay in power.
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This is really useful information to get out. Thanks!
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Just a technical point for the benefit of “Lenny” Trident is the nuclear delivery system.
The submarines which carry it are Vanguard Class Ballistic Missile Submarines.
I’m sure they have other capabilities like surveillance and close support for surface vessels in time of conflict. Failing that we could have them adapted for Classic Cruises for Politicians who are out of their depth LOL
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This is probably not the best place to ask this, apologies.
I would like to ask you what you think of this idea: Collectively could you start four online petitions via Parliament’s petition service?
The first would be:
For all MPs (and Civil Servants serving in ministerial offices) to be regularly and randomly drug and alcohol tested during working hours. Seeing as these people are often orchestrating, voting and determining on matters that affect the public at large, we should be comfortable in the knowledge that they are doing this with a sound mind that is not impacted by any substances that are known to effect cognitive and behavioural actions.
The second is for:
All transcripts of meetings and correspondence that MPs have with lobbyists, journalists, editors, corporations, people, whilst in office to be of public record and easily accessible to any member of the public. After all if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. The only exclusion would be matters of national security, an independent body would determine whether the MPs request for something to be included would fit the “national security” tag.
Third:
Any facilitator of a public sector contract, i.e. any private company fulfilling tax payer funded contracts, found to have acted with serious impropriety or negligence should be barred from being able to bid for any new contracts for a period of 5 years. This is because it is clear that any financial fines are seen as no more than a cost of doing business and restriction to future business would no doubt make the providers have more stringent checks and measures. An example would be G4s failing to provide security at the Olympics, or claiming they moved a dead person etc. etc.
Fourth:
Under European Fair Trade rules companies that are bidding for government (tax payer) funded contracts but using offshore tax schemes to improve tax efficiencies have an unfair advantage over other companies that are not engaging in this practice. Therefore as part of the bidding process the amount of local tax the bidder pays on an annual basis should be considered and negative points applied to those companies who have not contributed.
What do you think?
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Good thoughts to which I would add that more information should be provided on the 500 plus all parliament interest groups where at present only their accounts have to be published in a certain amount is received in cash and kind together with the membership of each group.. This enables member of the groups gave contacts to visit most countries of the world and to be entrained by business interests as well as influenced by lobby groups and interests without public awareness other than in general terms.
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In terms of potential uses they could visit Gibraltar more often where they have two dockyard spaces to give our Nato allies, the Spanish government, the message of hands off Gibraltar as it becomes the Hong Kong of the Mediterranean udner present plans and funding.
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Pingback: The Trident Debate – Cynical Optimist
When was Trident actually tested?
I do not mean a test firing of a dummy missile from a submarine to shew how “strong” Britain can be, nor an underground test of a warhead (or parts of a warhead) to allow the likely yield per missile to be calculated, but when was it actually fired at a target range with a thermonuclear detonation taking place?
Unless the bombs can be fired, aimed and detonated reliably and independently, Trident is just a very expensive box off fireworks.
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Pingback: Not just Jeremy Corbyn – senior Tories also think ditching Trident might be a good idea | Shoot the Messenger
Trident is obviously an obsolete white elephant, costing the British taxpayer millions of pounds each year which could be much better spent elsewhere.
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the whole basis of the nuclear deterrent is that it dos not have to work but potential enemies need to believe that the button will be pressed and that it will work;
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Reblogged this on Britain Isn't Eating.
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