(not satire – it’s the UK today)
Well I think this may be unprecedented.
After the extraordinary decision by the Crown Prosecution Service not to prosecute Lord Janner for child sex abuse, Leicestershire Police are obviously so incensed that they have released an extremely strong statement on their official website from one of Janner’s alleged victims.
The man expressly requested that Leicestershire Police make his statement publicly available. So here it is:
“This animal is still being protected because [of his status] and isn’t able to stand trial. They say that it’s not in the public interest, but isn’t it in the public interest to know what his victims have gone through at the hands of this man?
“If he was an everyday person with a normal life and job, justice would [have] been served, but as it stands we victims are just being pushed to the ground again and walked over.
“Let someone feel the pain and suffering that I’ve endured and still going to endure for the rest of my life. It’s not a case of being found guilty or going to prison – it’s about being believed after so long being told that we were lying. Justice needs to be served.”
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Can’t think why the CPS decided to prosecute Rolf Harris, for example, and not Janner.
Can you?
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Please feel free to comment. And please share. Thanks:
Pride's Purge 
Pingback: Police release extraordinary statement on Lord Janner: “this animal is still being protected” | Alternative News Network
Reblogged this on sdbast.
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Reblogged this on Beastrabban’s Weblog and commented:
Clearly, the local police investigating Janner have been rightly outraged at the Crown Prosecution Service’s failure to prosecute. The CPS’ argument is that Janner has dementia and is too senile and confused to stand trial. I’ve seen the same defence used to try and stop the prosecution of aging Nazis, who have now been caught. As for any ulterior reason why Janner won’t be prosecuted, my guess is that he could name so many others that were involved and shared his perverted and abusive tastes that the entire political establishment would be affected and stand accused. This was one of the reasons suggested to explain why the Labour MP Driberg was never prosecuted for his homosexual activities with other, consenting adult men before it was legalised in 1969. It was believed that he could name too many others, and cause a scandal that would rock the entire establishment.
Well, in Janner’s case, it’s far too late for that. The establishment is already being rocked, and so Janner should face justice. Even if that means further shaking confidence in the political class.
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Simply because he has the title Lord means they won’t prosecute it really is one law for them and one law for us
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The police were close to prosecuting Leon Brittan when he died of an illness no one had mentioned prior to his demise and burial in an “unmarked” grave. The frustration of survivors is plain to see on twitter. There are still vey many who been named they can’t all use the dementia defence. The cover up goes on
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Memories of Ernest Saunders. No doubt Jenner will have a miraculous recovery too, now he won’t be prosecuted. Why don’t they share this dementia cure with real sufferers?
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Ask yourself why the ONLY cases of politician paedophilia which are allowed to see the light of day are those where the perpetrator is dead, dying or otherwise incapable of testifying……
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“Let someone feel the pain and suffering that I’ve endured and still going to endure for the rest of my life. It’s not a case of being found guilty or going to prison – it’s about being believed after so long being told that we were lying. Justice needs to be served.” i know this persons pain and suffering i can assure you…it can be ended, healed, cured…the memories will obviously never go, but the emotional/mental pain will go…see the works of dr bob johnson….
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Someone will complain about this
Also police are going to challenge this decision
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He was involved with Frank Beck who was a complete sadist.
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beastrabben; The ‘local’ police didn’t send it to London, as former DPP says here; https://www.politicshome.com/home-affairs/articles/story/former-dpp-not-informed-lord-janner-allegations
your observations are probably right, he does have names, but as they’ve done previously with infidelity and homosexuality, they’ll find a way of making this legal. Just as the Germans have just made ‘incest’ legal?
It was only in the 60’s that Profumo was brought down with a scandal, they are making it easier to control Governments, by legalising everything! The Corporates control everything now!
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lord janner is ill with dementia but should still be prosecuted so that the lives of his victims can move on
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Funny that they all become unwell around prosecution time
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I do not accept Leicestershire Police failed to report this to London, I was around at the time and met Janner on several occasions; I KNOW he is Guilty!!
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http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/cps_launches_guidelines_on_child_sexual_abuse/
CPS guidelines on child sexual abuse
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Reblogged this on seachranaidhe1.
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Let’s see what happens in the next couple of weeks – will Janner suddenly die due to his dementia? Will he have an accident? Will he die of a “heart attack” brought on by an insulin overdose? Will he go meet the other filthy bastard Brittan, and if so, where?
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Reblogged this on Jay's Journal and commented:
This “man” will have something happen to him soon as he knows too many names…
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I remain convinced that only lone wolf abusers like Stuart Hall and Rolf Harris are being prosecuted and convicted and that anyone linked in to powerful paedophile rings who is able to bring other people down with them is being protected to the last ditch – that being either death or alleged ill health / incapacity.
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Indeed, why Rolf Harris but not Janner? That question needs answering.
Although this extract is from the Daily Mail (18 April 2015) – I thought it rather telling about Janner’s state of mind (mind you, Murdoch played a blinder with the senile old man facade at the Leveson enquiry…he seems fine now)
“…..it was revealed last night that Westminster attendance records show Janner attended the House of Lords almost daily and claimed more than £100,000 in expenses in the four years after he was diagnosed with the disease.
He only stopped attending Parliament – and claiming up to £300 a day for doing so – when child abuse police raided his house on December 2013. Even in that month he attended the Lords 12 times”
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They should never play politics with HCSA
Before long it will be depicted as ” leftist Jewish conspiracy cover up” Hinting at Ed behind it
Overlooking the fact that at dolphin square the abusers were pretty far right Lot
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yes we were and were getting away with it.did you think we wouldent you silly taxpaying plebs.
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chas
it’s very difficult, (it’s just so hard to explain it in this environment) for people to talk openly about their experiences (or generic affects and experiences of them), as one is constantly put on trail, to ‘prove it’, by those who claim we should be believed, but @ the same time don’t believe others like me who have had full experience of the system and healing as a victim of severe child abuse such as i and to get the words ‘right/grammar right’, especially if one has come from my background….
i have been attacked often to ‘prove it’, which in turn means being judged by others even diagnosed, how do i prove it by telling the whole sordid story (which would take months) it’s private in any case, and then being judged ok not ok by others, i’ve been there and done it, should i spend my life explaining they are wrong or just shut up, and walk on by?? …it’s hard work emotionally to keep stating my experiences over and over and over again…i mean shall/should i recount my actual experiences that would take a long time especially if others decide not to respond or reply in a hostile manner as they often do….should i be silenced/silent when i know differently than many others…as i/if one has experiences that depart from the norms status quo on the actual crime of CSA/CA…should free speech not be used to correct incorrect assertions/opinions on these issues so as to help others who suffer emotional and often physical pain as a result of CSA/CA, heal and get past this dreadful pain and suffering?
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This is the kind of trash that the people are putting in position of power. We should get rid of them all and start again only then do we stand a chance of regaining some respect for ourselves.
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The decision not to prosecute Lord Janner – statement from the DPP:
Point13: “In order to maintain {*} public confidence in the administration of justice” etc.
* Maybe the word “maintain” should have read “attempt to re-establish some”.
http://blog.cps.gov.uk/2015/04/the-decision-not-to-prosecute-lord-janner-statement-from-the-dpp.html
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The CPS should be independent, it is presently part of the establishment.
Also, the employees (mandarins) at the Home Office (and others – Foreign etc) should be rotated. (As per I believe they do in the USA).
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Perhaps it should have meant avoid
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By independent dp you mean privatised?
Where would that go
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@bobchewie Yep (or is there another mechanism that you would suggest?)
I would suggest that they would become publically accountable – more transparency and oversight… not much of that at present. 🙂
Actually – I had previously thought of this but heard M Reckless suggest it on Any Questions yesterday (BBCR5) – not that I support UKIP – NEVER!!! LOL
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The answer to that is to have a Govt that see the problems of establishment thinking and it to be separated without it becoming another money earner for a company that becomes another establishment
It needs experienced people familiar with all parts of crimes and to have a sense of justice based on experiences of victims and the effect that crimes have upon victims
At the moment the CPS works on the principle of whether there is a likely possible outcome of prosecution and ideally public interest
That criteria needs to be looked at. Ie the likelihood of prosecution
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100% agree – but where is the oversight and accountability?
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The reason he is not being prosecuted is because he has dementia. It is not because he is too old Everyone is entitled to a fair trial that would not be possible in this case as he is neither able to comprehend the charges against him or give instructions to defend himself against them it is also a bedrock of the justice system that a person is presumed innocent unil their guilt is proved
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bob
god! this is such hardwork….the CJS is not the place for healing to take place…
i have to keep repeating myself over and over and over again the victim is the crime scene..it’s not like any other type of crime scene, because the crime scene, the key witness, is an emotionally injured person…there are many, rules, regs, grace and etiquette the victims have to follow which actually block healing to the roots of the emotional injuries, which need to be cut…the victim has to perform to give evidence that will be believed, therefore be constantly on to ball, therefore in 2 places @ once, both a victim and one’s own unaffected advocate, and fighting to be believed…in healing being believed by the psychotherapist about what happened in the past doesn’t matter, it’s the symptoms, which they see, one recounts, and they know by seeing, to be true…not so much who caused them, though this is important, for many reasons, but the actual abuse that matter and what the victim feels/affects now, about the past…the victims has the history of the past within them which will come out as symptoms to be dealt with/healed within the recounting framework of aided by an expert advocate and/or in expert psychotherapy and how it affected one froze one numb ridged, NOT in an adversarial/performance setting…the idea is to boot out all the anxieties caused by the emotional injuries…not manage them nor learn to cope with them but get rid of them for good….i knew as soon as i spoke to my 1984> psychotherapist that she was there to listen to me, share in my experiences, in one session i asked if we could just sit and watch the clock ticking away, we shared that solemn space it was amazingly healing and reassuring, silence is golden, in truth and help me…this has only ever happen 4 times in my 63yr life…with her, dr bob, his wife, and the worker @ their IoW emotional support center….now closed due to lack of support although dr bob and his wife are still very active in getting their message out there…
right from early childhood, i have had much contact with the police over my abuse, they are very knowledgeable, often in pleasantly surprising ways….
in my experience they have been excellent and have always taken me seriously and believed me…
the CJS is not the place for a victim to go for healing…the police will pursue if the victim insists in my experience, which seems to count for nothing as far as many here are concerned…the route out of suffering now advocated by childabuse victims support groups, through CJS, imv is just plain wrong…
only after one has healed, if one should one choose, if one wants to, pursue the CJS… avenue….and not before…
http://www.brusselsblog.co.uk/people-we-should-listen-to/
see also powerful film presented by pfof joe sim…punishment; a failed social experiment ….and solutions section by maverick psychiatrist dr bob johnson…
i’d also like to point out that hundreds of thousands of people (since 1980’s) could have healed by now and are suffering needlessly cos his work and others like it, is not out there……dr bob johnson is and experienced medico/legal advocate and does much work in this area, today….the needs are love(full empathy type) and compassion, with masses of consent trust and truth…not a ‘therapist’ who will duck for cover…healing is ime grueling, one has to relive the whole experience and release/vent the trapped/frozen emotions caused by abuse(s)..
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It’s all about the Establishment, who decide who will be protected, no matter the scale of their criminality. Added to this that Lord Janner of Braunstone is Jewish and Rolf Harris was from Kangaroo land.
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There is substantial evidence against Mr Janner that is worthy of bringing a prosecution.
The CPS is aware of claims of cover up has anyone checked CPS history?
It’s riddled with errors EG prosecuting ppl who were not guilty and setting free people who were
There has been a pattern of offenders who suddenly became ” unwell ” at time of prosecution. EG FR Tony Mcsweeney
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Status, race, religion etc should have nothing to do with it nor should it influence the decision making
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All Old Boys, each with a finger Up a BUM………….
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Allegedly has Alzheimer’s Disease but was still working in the House of Lords. Four ‘experts’ agree on diagnosis and ‘it couldn’t be faked’ but I remember the Guinness Trial.
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as i have thoroughly explained, with links, on many posts, to heal, the abusers, is/are not required to be physically present…
one can heal even if the abuser(s) is/are deceased…
it’s up to the system to and find a way to prosecute the abuser, not the victims…even though the evidence is with the victim, the victim is also unique in also being the crime scene…another way must be found, this obvs is not convenient for many to hear….need a totally different CJ set up, to hear such cases…but imv that no other way can be found, does not mean the existing system is desirable, and is any thing but in my considered opinion…the main thing is that the victim gets effective therapy and unconditional sanctuary required to heal, as soon as possible…
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How does this beast deny these terrible things happened. He’s supposed to have dementia so how the fuck does he know he didn’t if he can’t remember. BIG BIG COVER UP AS ALWAYS WITH LOT.
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overburdened donkey – The criminal justice system isn’t there to heal the mental scars of abuse victims (though some victims say they find it helpful to see their abusers convicted) it’s intended to provide justice. You seem to be criticising it for something it isn’t supposed to do. If you criticised mental health services for failing to help the victims of child abuse then you’re probably right.
To stay on subject – If you criticised the criminal justice system for failing miserably to protect the past, current and future victims of child abuse, whilst blatantly protecting rich and powerful abusers, then you would be even more right.
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merry
i refer you to my above posts for the answers to your post…is all i can reasonably state…
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overburdened donkey
“only after one has healed, if one should one choose, if one wants to, pursue the CJS… avenue….and not before…”
Sorry, but I think you’re completely wrong. If the criminal justice route is only followed after the victims have found healing, then the abusers will carry on abusing.
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merry
i have already thoroughly covered that and all, i hope, (it’s possible that i have left some vital info out, although i can’t think what) other issues that you have raised in my above posts and links….so once again i refer you to a thorougher reading of all my above posts and links, for your greater understanding of the issues involved…
unless you can find anything else that i can reasonably comment on, that is not already covered by my above posts and links, i am unable to add any further comment….
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Overburdened – Do you mean that the victim of the crime should be the one to decide when or whether the criminal should be prosecuted?
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Merrie, the issue is that the CJS makes the problem of violent crime worse in our society. It promotes it as much as the death sentence promotes killing as an acceptable response.
Imprisonment, the removal of freedom IS the “punishment”. The brutal and inhuman prison regimes in place throughout the world provide extra, more intense, more barbaric abuse to the imprisoned person. It’s an active and deliberate deterioration of the individual. Be it more sexual abuse, beatings, isolation, stabbings, threats (from other inmates or prison staff) or just the deadness of inactivity and claustrophia, the truth is, that the punishment regime teaches nothing, repairs nothing, heals nothing.
What is the point of putting people who are deemed unfit to be amongst us into a system that will only compound their aberrant behaviours and emotional disorder and distress.
What came first, the crime or the punishment?
It would be better to ask why are we bashing our heads against a brick wall with a system that just does nothing but make society a more dangerous and unpleasant place to be?
If we adopted a more humanist and intelligent approach, we’d understand that punishment teaches nothing. The best chance for us all is to actually start making small communities that are able to care for each other, from birth to death, We do not have that state now, until we do, we will be short changing all future generations. Why? because unless we have stable communities of people with good self worth, able to nurture, respect, educate, all we will be doing is producing more of the traumatised, fucked up, emotional disaster zones that stumble out of prison, into the darkness.
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Lucy – Do you think child abuse doesn’t happen in small, stable, caring communities?
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It is the continual cover up and protection for the privalidged class that has made me revive a lifetimes views. I have completely switched, I do not trust anyone in position. Seems bribery and corruption gets you to the top!!!! I want it to topple, the destruction of a disgusting system. 99% working decent people and the 1% that has the audacity to stick up there noses and criticise us. I hope I live to see their total distruction. Of course it will all happen again but for a while decent people will live in a clean country .
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lucy
yes…then there’s that in your above post….ie pedos are secondary abusers they ‘get in’ on the vulnerability of the child, often have many victims, if some of those victims become pedos themselves because of the way they have been abused by pedos, we end up in a never ending cycle of abuse, which we’re now in..
CSA/CA is rife in the uk that tide must be turned for all our sake’s, and of course many many victims, must be healed…punishment is a crime… the solution is to cure crime, crime is an act of revenge…by all means offer abusers who are ALSO CA victims and their victims separate unconditional sanctuary…where they can be offered effective therapy…pedophilia is a SYMPTOM..so it’s useless to treat their abusive behaviours, find the root cause which is always child abuse and vent the frozen/trapped emotions, they’ll never re-offend again…
fact all abusers want to heal and all victims want to heal, there is a natural/innate tendency to want/need to heal….
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“fact all abusers want to heal”
Complete and utter rubbish. Most child abusers want to abuse children, and carry on abusing children for the rest of their active lives without getting caught. If it was not illegal then most would feel no guilt whatsoever. Have you never heard of PIE?
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@merry yeah they re offend at quite an alarming rate too
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bob
which if you bother to read my posts i have already stated….
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bob
you’re methods imply arresting all, child sex offenders in the uk (or will you just choose the ones that you deem are most offensive) and throw them in jail to fester…need a prison the size of large city to hold them all, then another for all the staff…the problem is growing not receding…we have to get to the roots of the problem and cut them…i wish i had help when i was 6yrs old and even below that age, imv that and @ school age, is the best time to sort out these problems, (emotional injuries), not let them fester and embed, so that they become a formed part of the person’s personality…
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Reblogged this on Britain Isn't Eating.
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lucy
apologies for the following omission…fact all abusers want to heal and all victims want to heal, there is a natural/innate tendency to want/need to heal….but they don’t know how to….nor are they offered effective therapies…nor sanctuary…as you correctly state more punishment is added to what they have already suffered…
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My experience is similar.
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gringo
i would simply ‘like’ that post, but it not only does not feel right…and i also feel like saying ‘good on ya’, for saying….’My experience is similar’,.very powerful, coz i know, not exactly, what you mean, but i suspect it’s close enough for me to know exactly what you mean!
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Reblogged this on Indiĝenaj Inteligenteco.
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If they can hunt down and drag 93 year olds alleged to have been associated with the holocaust and put on trial why is this creature being given the soft glove treatment?
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All of this is the backwash of the Establishment’s success in covering up the extent of child sexual abuse in the 1990s and early 2000. The internet, and social media, wasn’t as developed then as it is now, and large sections of the population relied on newspapers and television for information. The media of the time, along with the justice system, was complicit in rubbishing those attempts that were made to flag up child sexual abuse. It was all over-zealous doctors, police, social workers, children with over-active imaginations. Which many people wanted to believe, because when we’re faced with horror, betrayal and corruption on this scale, the tendency of the human mind is to protect itself. It’s not so much bringing this man to trial for the sake of ‘punishment’ but for the sake of society facing the extent of child sexual abuse (which is a variant of abuse of all vulnerable beings). But I have no faith in the justice system. It collaborated with the cover-up before, and will do so again. In this case, it seems it isn’t even going to get the chance
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“…pedophilia is a SYMPTOM..so it’s useless to treat their abusive behaviours, find the root cause which is always child abuse and vent the frozen/trapped emotions, they’ll never re-offend again…”
Could this be why so many appear to be ex-Public school, Choirboy, Homeless Shelter victims?
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“Status, race, religion etc should have nothing to do with it nor should it influence the decision making”
‘SHOULD’ being the operative word, but we know, it doesn’t apply! In the ‘real’ world!
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If his mind truly has turned to mush, there would be little point in jailing him. He would not even know that he was in prison. But if he gets better, jail him.
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rollo
it’s power over their own child abuse, denial to make it all ok, ie it never happened, i was loved and not abused etc ie ‘what i’m doing to children, is not abuse but love, and no one else, seems to, understand this’…you see, there is always doubt in the abusers mind…but the actual, ’emotional cutting the roots of abuse affects therapy’ pays no heed to this, and seeks to get to the root causes of the historically placed symptoms, and the behaviours/distress that they cause in the present….with the aid of an expert advocate for the abused child, in safe surroundings..i also believe that unconditional sanctuary should be provided…
quaker dr bob johnson, clinic now closed due to lack of support, used to see the victim once or twice find the problem, with ‘customers’ help and therefore consent, set homework by email…for as long as it was needed, but the process soon becomes DIY, ‘integrated’ into daily life..costs of this approach are minimal and he never charged for the actual therapy, unless you wanted to pay, fees were never discussed, just like this web site……
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Miller_(psychologist) ‘A common denominator in Miller’s writings is her explanation of why human beings prefer not to know about their own victimization during childhood: to avoid unbearable pain. She believed that the unconscious command of the individual, not to be aware of how he or she was treated in childhood, led to displacement: the irresistible drive to repeat abusive parenting in the next generation of children or direct unconsciously the unresolved trauma against others (war, terrorism, delinquency).,[31][32] or against him or herself (eating disorders, drug addiction, depression).The roots of violence[edit]
According to Alice Miller, worldwide violence has its roots in the fact that children are beaten all over the world, especially during their first years of life, when their brains become structured.[31] She said that the damage caused by this practice is devastating, but unfortunately hardly noticed by society.[33] She argued that as children are forbidden to defend themselves against the violence inflicted on them, they must suppress the natural reactions like rage and fear, and they discharge these strong emotions later as adults against their own children or whole peoples: “child abuse like beating and humiliating not only produces unhappy and confused children, not only destructive teenagers and abusive parents, but thus also a confused, irrationally functioning society.”[16] Miller stated that only through becoming aware of this dynamic can we break the chain of violence
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@overburdenddonkey
Unfortunately, the whole basis of your argument (that adult paedophilia is caused by being a victim of paedophilia in childhood) is simply not true. The vast majority of victims DO NOT go on to become paedophiles themselves, especially as the majority of victims are girls.
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And today I learn Janner has, after his formal break from the Lords, applied to return to sit and vote again. Justice?
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If Janner does not die or disappear, like so many of abusing friends, then make sure he`s not seen sneaking back in to the house of lords to collected £300 + expenses, when he thinks we have all forgotten him?! #WeDoNotForgetWeDoNotForGive
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bridge
your assertions to me, are not true on both counts…as i have already posted not all CSA/CA victims go on to be abusers, some do…the vast majority, like myself, remain extremely overtly vulnerable..until healing comes along…
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ps bridge
i specifically used the term CA….so as not to relate it directly to CSA victims….as i believe that this is an important distinction to make…
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pps bridge, as i have already pointed out, that in healing none of that is important…
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http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/571400/Janner-too-powerful-prosecute-child-sex-abuse
JANNER ” TOO POWERFUL ” TO PROSECUTE
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Reply to Vanessa
To avoid any confusion.
My previous reply of “My experience is similar” was to Vanessa who said “It is the continual cover up and protection for the privalidged class that has made me revive a lifetimes views. I have completely switched, I do not trust anyone in position.”
and I add:
I used to meekly accept what was said/reported. Then I learnt to listen to “what was NOT being reported/said” eg by the BBC . The Net helps enormously with this.
I infrequently hear any fresh news from the BBC – listen to (news/current affairs outlets) only get views etc.
As a result of the Establishment’s (Gov’ts mandarins chairs police sec services GCHQ/NSA CPS) shenanigans in #CSAInquiry and #privacy (Snowden’s revelations) I too have become extremely cynical of The Establishment; one which I once used to respect.
In my view they no longer reflect contemporary Britain.
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plainly bob the arguments have made about prosecuting vip pedos helping victims to heal, have no credibility….are you now prepared to accept this, and campaign for unconditional sanctuary and effective therapies to be made available to all CSA/CA victims, so as to bring an end to their horrendous often lifetime suffering…?
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MI6 was pretty much an entity itself and arms business deals they represented them after a while and their battle with MI5
” defence of the realm ” claim because of concerns over blackmail or actually in case anyone found out about these VIP nonces.
They saw that as a threat. and anyone exposing those Vips was seen as a threat
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Overburdened – Why does it have to be either/or? Surely society should prosecute child abusers AND provide therapy for their victims. Why do you seem to think paedophiles should not be prosecuted?
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To Merrie, way up there ^ if a community is TRUELY stable and caring (this may be a new concept to us all in actuality, then it is unlikely that abuse will happen, and if it does, because the community is small, stable and caring, then the behaviour can be stopped immediately.
We have gained the ability to look away, and forgotten how to actually see.
As for your assertion that all child abusers want to do is to abuse more children, how do you know this? The reality is that those who have been brutalised, traumatised generally want to stop their behaviours because those behaviours cause them, themselves yet more pain and trauma.
Yeah, I know it’s hard to understand and accept. But that’s the way it is.
The punish and brutalise method has done nothing but feed people back into the system who are more likely to harm others than before they went into the regime.
But you keep banging on about punishment and justice, I means, it’s worked really fucking well so far hasn’t it?
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lucy
exactly right…
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Lucy – Oh well, if you’re describing a ‘stable and caring community’ which doesn’t actually exist anywhere yet, then no doubt you’re right that there is no child abuse there!
I haven’t been banging on about punishment… in fact I didn’t mention it at all. I think punishment is not a helpful concept. The criminal justice system should be about protecting the vulnerable people in our society from crime and rehabilitation of offenders back into society.
“As for your assertion that all child abusers want to do is to abuse more children, how do you know this?” – Because that’s what nearly all psychiatric studies have concluded, and it’s also what most paedophiles themselves say.
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P.S. “it’s worked really fucking well so far” because a blind eye has been turned to paedophiles for decades or centuries, and not just the VIPs, priests etc, but also the paedophiles in families and ‘stable caring communities’. How about actually trying to use the criminal justice system first before you condemn it for not working…
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Front page of Sunday people sex abuse father not jailed because he had ” dementia ”
Must be a disease that paedophiles catch just before they are sent to trial
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merry
you’re not responding as one who has any idea about this subject, but in a bookworm manner, a nerd…you seriously think that a victim who goes through years and years horrendous abuse, and it’s aftermath, should add and compound their suffering by going through the CJS, and be responsible for prosecuting an abuser and function ‘normally’ as if they’re not affected by the abuse? where is your sense of reality, where has it gone?…as a survivour of CSA i do have a great deal of experience of this subject…
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overburdenddonkey
The victim must make their decision on the understanding of their own life and problems, balanced against the possible wider benefit to society by protecting or helping other victims. You appear to have made your own decisions for reasons known only to you, but that isn’t necessarily the right decision for everybody… and yes, I have some experience.
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It’s because they re offend at an alarming rate
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There’s something so very wrong with this country!!
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overburdenddonkey – Perhaps you should think twice about telling other people how to handle their problems, just because you think one particular route worked for you.
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merry
quelle suprise!
that is a stock answer, with the expectation of healed calm collected rationality from the UNHEALED victim of this massive, an extra burden, to have dumped on their shoulders, being promised shangri-la if they prosecute their abusers…it simply cannot, doesn’t heal, the abuse. FOR NO ONE, as i have already posted in my links and posts above….dumped on the shoulders of the terrified victim, get out of your books…
your view demonstrates no emotional engagement nor experience with/of the issues involved…if the abuse is contextually very minor and done later in life ie as a teenager then yes this likely can be done….you talk as if one is buying a washing machine! the victim is the crime scene…
but not with severely abused children…healing must be done 1st…
and it’s up to the non abused, resource ladened, CJS to find away of prosecuting the abuser or @ least keeping the abuser from harming others ie custody and effective therapy…a new system must be found and the social responsibility lifted from the shoulders of victims…where was (where is it now?) the social responsibility when the victim was being abused?.you’ve simply left the affects of the severe child abuse out of the equation and come up with your stock answer….as i have already thoroughly covered that and all, i hope, (it’s possible that i have left some vital info out, although i can’t think what) other issues that you have raised in my above posts and links….so once again i refer you to a thorougher reading of all my above posts and links, for your greater understanding of the issues involved…
unless you can find anything else that i can reasonably comment on, that is not already covered by my above posts and links, i am unable to add any further comment…
bob
It’s because they re offend at an alarming rate..yes they do, and you point is? should we second the IoW and park all sex abusers there….?
whats the arrest/contrition rate for sex abusers, do you expect to see a massive expansion of specialists police officers?
healing the victims must come 1st….and the infrastructures, apart from the effective therapies, are already in place….
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ps should read; victim of this massive trauma (emotional injuries)…
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overburdenddonkey – You seem to be saying to all victims of child abuse that they should NOT report the crimes to the police. Is that really what you mean?
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merry
no! i’m not, it’s far more complex than your simplistic view is implying/making out to be though, get out of your books….and if you think i’m going to post the massive range of options, events and manifold permutations you’ve got another thing coming…
are you seriously suggesting that a 3yr strolls into a police station (see my above posts and links) and reports the CSA/CA crime? or tell me what age a victim should report the crime? you really don’t get it! i am saying it’s the CJS that needs to changed,not the victim fit into it…BUT pay attention now…for one thing healing cannot start until others are aware/made aware of the crime, so it is implied as being reported in any case..depending on age of victim….and if one wants healing (@any age) and unconditional sanctuary, those arrangements also have to made…so it does very much depend on many different circumstances etc as i have already stated…
i refer to my above caveat…
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overburdenddonkey – You have repeatedly said that the victim should not report the crimes to the police until they have recovered from the trauma. That could take many years, maybe never. Meanwhile the abuser is probably continuing to abuse. Your argument is just plain wrong.
We should be encouraging MORE victims to come forward to the police, (via parent/guardian/social worker/teacher if the victim is still young). You are arguing exactly the reverse, which will just help ensure there will be more victims. Coming forward is a terrifying prospect and it may delay one’s own recovery (or it may help it), but isn’t it more important to stop the abusers?
Of course a 3 year old will not stroll into a police station to report abuse. If that’s the level of your argument then don’t bother.
Of course also the criminal justice system needs reforms, but isn’t using what we’ve got a hell of a lot better than letting the abusers carry on abusing?
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merry
‘You have repeatedly said that the victim should not report the crimes to the police until they have recovered from the trauma.’
no! i have not…you just make things up….in fact i have praised the police on many many occasions, including on this blog post, so it just shows that you’re not paying attention and have a stuck mind set…as an org the police are among, and ime have always been savvie, the only institutions that actually know enough not to damage the victim further, by actually paying attention to what is being said and applying their vast knowledge in dealing with the general public, to the situation before them, extremely caring/empathetic , in those circumstances…so don’t lie….
adopting a system, the victim is the crime scene, and with/in a CJS system of due process, is plain wrong and it is plain wrong and it is abusive to dump the social responsibility on the the still suffering victim…my way will actually offer vital help/intervention earlier on…i sought help @ 4yrs old, so it @ that time i still had a sense of self and self esteem….later on as the yrs progressed it was all gone…
the victim IS ALREADY TERRIFIED, triggering in a non EXPERT therapeutic environment can be very bad for the victim and their recovery…got to stop the abuse very early on..my way will do that, and save a lot of damage being done…like i say you have no idea of the issues involved…and you certainly don’t reply in a way that represents my posts and links…ie in particular i have already said this (via parent/guardian/social worker/teacher if the victim is still young)….in fact i have already countered all of your claims…so why you persist on not acknowledging this, is for you to know…and certainly not up to me to convince others who have no actual knowledge of being in this position…it really is time for the victims to speak out and use their own voices to do so and not go through ‘helpers’ and interpreters, who so often one has to tell them what they want to hear in the hope of finding a true helper/true help and grasp @ straws in vain hope ….
every CSA/CA victim is desperate for the abuse to stop and get help, so there is NO NEED for CSA/CA victims to be encouraged to come forward, fobbed off with BS until the abuse affects have become really embedded…..what stops them latterly is the very real knowledge of the system and the process that is before them is CRAP under current circumstances…they want to come forward for real help, not the help and opinions of those who have no idea what they are doing and have gotten all of their knowledge from books the lecture room, and no real life experience of the endurance of CSA/CA and/or fail to listen to the victims and treat them as if damaged beyond repair thick, or stupid or we know best ‘for your own good’ in fact very similar to the Work Cap Assessment, see a pattern here, i do….and don’t know the difference between help and no help, as i have already explained in my above posts, if you can be bothered to do as my caveat demands……
as always i refer to my above caveat…
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“only after one has healed, if one should one choose, if one wants to, pursue the CJS… avenue….AND NOT BEFORE…”
You should think first about what you say…
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meery
YES THE CJS….NOT THE POLICE..
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ps the OPERATIVE WORD I CONSTANTLY USED IS PROSECUTE/PROSECUTION
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“so there is NO NEED for CSA/CA victims to be encouraged to come forward”
Of course there f***ing is! Victims are scared stiff and it take real courage to come forward, and if you don’t already know that then you obviously have no experience. It’s starting to sound like you are just spouting bullsh** in complete ignorance.
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“YES THE CJS….NOT THE POLICE..”
The police are obviously the first point of contact in the criminal justice system. Are you an idiot?
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pps AND THEN THERE IS OUR CARE SYSTEM TO GO THROUGH, WHEN THE CHILD IS REMOVED FROM THEIR PARENTS! FAMILY THERAPY SHOULD BE THE 1ST PORT OF CALL IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES…AND YES I’M STILL ON TOPIC AND I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT, YOU DO NOT…
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…and if social services or private therapists are told (or think) that the child has been abused, then they are legally obliged to tell the police, and rightly so. You clearly don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
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merry
BUT pay attention now…for one thing healing cannot start until others are aware/made aware of the crime, so it is implied as being reported in any case..depending on age of victim….and if one wants healing (@any age) and unconditional sanctuary, those arrangements also have to made…so it does very much depend on many different circumstances etc as i have already stated…
i refer to my above caveat…
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Merrie, there seems little point In interacting with you on this issue. But what the hell. If you want to dismiss it, ok, but others might realise that there are other systems that are far more effective at dealing (and healing) with the aberrant behaviour of others. Keeping members of society safe whilst ensuring that all have a chance to heal. Both abuser and abused. You cannot have a safe or fair society without the inclusion of everyone in it.
It’s clear to me that the main thing you are concerned with is, the protection of potential victims and actual victims. Fair enough, but your stance is naïve in extremis. If you only provide sanctuary and care (currently we don’t do that either) to victims, you leave the other 50% of the damage and damaging element (a person who has abused) out of the equation, leaving them to continue in their own particular hell, all the while causing more harm to others.
Lest Merrie rips off at a gallop insisting that I am protecting paedophiles, let me say that the humanist model applies the ‘care and respect for all’ ethos to all, ergo, to all those who hurt others, commit crimes of any sort too, the whole caboodle.
Our habit of hiding those we deem unfit or dangerous to us out of sight or care, so we can look away and pretend (by use of appallingly dubious therapies) that we are doing good for the victims, compounds the hell that survivors endure (often for a lifetime) Most therapies on offer, including what is often passed as therapy by the unregulated psychotherapy industry, often results in the survivor experiencing more trauma, not from the memories of abuse, but by the callous, unprofessional counsellors/CPNs/Shrinks/psychologists using unproven and damaging techniques, that keep the survivor royally fucked and sick.
The fact that we don’t have yet small, stable communities where we can live and nurture our offspring and ourselves does not condemn that state to the wilderness as something we should never work towards. Your determined but apologetic promotion of the current shambles of the punishment system, does nothing but diminish your argument.
Blind faith in the car crash version of science that is modern psychiatry illustrates naïvety and misinformation. If the route you have taken to healing, hasn’t worked then maybe it’s time to take a look at other genuinely healing approaches
…and we won’t even start on the brain/life damage caused by psychiatric drugs given to both perpetrator of abuse and the abused.
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Mr Donkey – I that’s the end of the conversation. Anybody who can seriously say:
“there is NO NEED for CSA/CA victims to be encouraged to come forward” and…
“only after one has healed, if one should one choose, if one wants to, pursue the CJS… avenue….AND NOT BEFORE…”
…isn’t living in the real world.
I wish you well in trying to come to terms with your past abuse.
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Another matter Merrie. Your disdainful responses to OBD are pretty revealing. He’s hit the nail on the head. You have no experience, no true learning, no real knowledge on the subject of child abuse, sexual or otherwise.
I’d go back to Chat magazine, if I was you, or maybe mumsnet.
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well said lucy and very worth saying….denial is rife they talk about courage (often said in smiley way @ me with no sense of irony) and @ the same time deny the affects of severe trauma/emotional injuries, as if the 2, are mutual exclusive…as dr dot rowe correctly states in her book ‘beyond fear’ they are in 2 places @ once…it just beggars believe…we have to suspend belief often to make these spouters views true very often, so as this may lead to genuine help that we know we need and yet so few offer….
CSA/CA is rife and getting worse coz we the victims nor our healing expert therapist’s are listened to and dismissed, for the sake of political ideologies…we know what’s best for you….
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lucy
just seen your supportive post that is posted for all unheard victims of CSA/CA and not just to support me… 🙂
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Lucy – I wish you well in your plan to create your stable, caring society where there is no crime. Will you get back to us when you’ve succeeded? By the way, what are you actually DOING to create it? It sounds like a really interesting project!
I’m rather sadly only trying to make the society we’ve already got just a little bit better. I guess I’m aiming too low…
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merry
she’s telling/speaking truth to deniers like you, that’s what….
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merry ducks for cover
anyone can take things out of context without comprehending the whole qualifying statement, paragraph, posts, collectively intentionally or unintentionally…and try to score/make points using those phrases they deem fit to post as retorts…like ‘Mr Donkey – I that’s the end of the conversation. Anybody who can seriously say:
“there is NO NEED for CSA/CA victims to be encouraged to come forward” and…
“only after one has healed, if one should one choose, if one wants to, pursue the CJS… avenue….AND NOT BEFORE…”
…isn’t living in the real world.
I wish you well in trying to come to terms with your past abuse.,
but as in my caveat i express ie i have already thoroughly covered that and all, i hope, (it’s possible that i have left some vital info out, although i can’t think what) other issues that you have raised in my above posts and links….so once again i refer you to a thorougher reading of all my above posts and links, for your greater understanding of the issues involved…
unless you can find anything else that i can reasonably comment on, that is not already covered by my above posts and links, i am unable to add any further comment….@ my discretion i haven’t always stuck to it but nevertheless it still stands and mark a point of remembrance…
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*steps around the vortex of Merrie’s angry ignorance and denial*
Yep, OBD it’s for everyone who has been abused or abused others. Not one voice should be ignored. That’s the part of the deal that so many find so hard to understand. Inclusion, means all. No exceptions.
…and apropos of the general debacle surrounding Janner, here’s an interesting letter, sent to the CPS by a Green Party candidate…
http://greenerblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/challenge-to-cps-decision-on-greville.html
As ever the real issue is lost in the frantic scrambling to justify, deny, warp and mangle the truth or even make gain from it.
This time, it’s about psychiatric assessment protocol and evidencing fitness to stand trial.
Talk about barking up the wrong tree, but an interesting short read, none the less.
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lucy
freedom come all ye… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nLGKFTH5sw 🙂
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Apologies, Mr Pride, I’m thread hogging here.
Merry, an example from the real world for you. It’s not about me, it’s from a friend who is staying with me and has read your efforts to ignore 50% of the problem of how we deal with the life wrecking horror of paedophilia. It’s also about the thousands of people who have come forward to report violent sexual acts against them.
My friend, an adult female, reports several instances of severe sexual violence she has endured at the hands of her partner, to the police. She is told by the “Domestic Violence Intervention Officer” that there appears to be strong evidence that she is telling the truth. The police want to arrest and detain the perpetrator of the sexual and violent abuse. However….
…before they do that, they want to ascertain how tough the “victim” is and my friend was told…
“you realise that if this gets to court, you will have your life presented to you in an aggressive, demeaning manner in front of a full courtroom and even your family if they come to court to support you. Any little thing that happened in your life, that you deemed insignificant, will be embellished and badly lit to show you up as a demented liar. The defence council will stop at nothing to destroy your testimony and your integrity. They will try to rip you to pieces. So you, just say the word and we’ll arrest him”
What would you do in those circumstances Merry?
What would you do, sitting there, bruised, broken bones, torn flesh, invaded and 100% emotionally eviscerated by someone who is supposed to be a loved one? What would you do if there were no external physical scars, only emotional ones?
Everyone thinks they know what they’d do in that situation. But until it happens to them, they cannot predict what they would do. Now, that’s adult survivors who, in theory have the wherewithal to rationalise their responses (whilst in the early, compounding and tempestuous stages of trauma!) and also predict their own levels of fortitude when under further and future attack. When it’s children who are survivors, how the fuck are they supposed to cope?
Yeah, yeah, we’ve all seen and know of the “kindly”, smiley, head tilting, fake empathy spouting, tick box social workers and MH workers. They all use what is deemed as “age appropriate” language, but the effect is the same. A damaged child presented with the enormity of the justice system. We’ve all seen on telly, the colourful, bright rooms with especially designed toys to help the survivors explain what happened to the them. But what isn’t realised is, that the whole process of taking a child through the judicial system as a victim of crime, contains absolutely no element that attends to healing, or even, shocking as it may seem, identifying and acknowledging the damage and pain that has been caused to that child/teenager/adult.
For an adult to be presented with that scenario, that threatens further abuse and harm, an adult who may be terrified, injured in many ways, to walk boldly without protection into that court room for more serious damage, isn’t going to be the choice of many. Children, often don’t have any choice. They may be able to give evidence via video link. But even that is part of the re-traumatising process for them.
It’s not a vast stretch of the imagination to see how the approach to adult survivors trickles down to reach younger victims of abuse and those supposedly protecting them. In this country we have a MSM that purports to be horrified by acts of violence to individuals of all ages, and parasitizes itself to them by fictionalising and dramatizing the real experiences of the survivor. For the survivor, when it comes to the crunch, there is nothing but more trauma and damage awaiting them.
Hysteria & outrage sells newspapers Merry, and the kind of books you may have read. The authors of those books have sold you short.
If the process causes yet more harm to the survivors and the perpetrators, which in turn leads to more harm to further individuals, then the process is very badly wrong.
In this country we seem obsessed with causing more harm at every juncture. If this obsession isn’t cured, then we are all done for…
…and that includes you Merry.
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Thanks OBD!
“dings the fell gallows o the burghers doun”
Their power is nothing against the rage of injustice against all
Damn right, sooner, later, we will all get there 🙂
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lucy
the illusion of justice from the system when needed keeps many feeling a warm glow, until they do…
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lucy
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they come to fight you, and then you win.” (MK Gandhi)
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OBD it’s true! That warm glow is addictive to some who insist it is the real thing (justice) It can’t be and never will be when the system is pursues fallacious ideals.
No one can say we don’t try. One day, others might get it. One day soon, I hope.
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He should be burnt alive in public along with DC for allowing this cover up…..
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unknown
justice in uk is like a slippery ladder, for most, the closer one gets to the top, the more scorn and oil they pour on the rungs…
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Lucy – That’s only a few details, but I’ll give you my first reaction…
The bastard should be in jail where he can’t attack her again, or any other women. Firstly your friend should leave him! Next I think she should go through with the prosecution, with her friends beside her every step of the way, to support her and help keep her strong. They should loudly and persistently criticise any treatment by the police or courts which is uncaring or inappropriate, using the press if possible.
I heard about a rape trial where the victim’s friends and family were in the public gallery. They booed when the defence asked inappropriate questions. The judge let them get away with it and even reprimanded the defence…… the defendant was found guilty.
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Overburdened – I haven’t run away. It’s not possible to have a rational discussion with somebody who says something, then denies that they said it, when it’s right there in black and white.
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merry
overburdenddonkey – Perhaps you should think twice about telling other people how to handle their problems, just because you think one particular route worked for you.
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merry
Overburdened – I haven’t run away. It’s not possible to have a rational discussion with somebody who says something, then denies that they said it, when it’s right there in black and white. show me what i have denied….
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Merry, there you go! With your last comment you have revealed that you have absolutely no experience in or real knowledge of these matters at all.
It’s time you burned those books Merry, they are showing you up as a total fool.
Ask for a refund.
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lucy
he/she won’t see two separate options, but say how can i get a refund, if i’ve burnt them…
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Ha! er….present the ashes in a nice little urn perhaps? What the authors of twaddle produce is a nice little ‘earner’ after all 😉
*gets coat*
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lucy
yes an nice little urner, well massive urner, for many, now were @ the crux…no need to get coat yet…
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Lucy – I take it from your reply that you agree with the first part. The report in the second part is from a local newspaper, but I wasn’t there so I can’t vouch for it.
overburdenddonkey – I was specifically asked for my opinion about one particular situation, so I gave it.
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come on merry get on with it i’m waiting for the evidence of my alleged denial…
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merry
as was i…
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OBD
“i’m waiting for the evidence of my alleged denial…” – I already pointed it out at 9:42
“as was i…” – No, you were asked about a general principle.
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merry
this is the only 9.42 post i can find for today
“only after one has healed, if one should one choose, if one wants to, pursue the CJS… avenue….AND NOT BEFORE…” where’s the denial in that?
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merry
‘BUT pay attention now…for one thing healing cannot start until others are aware/made aware of the crime, so it is implied as being reported in any case..depending on age of victim….and if one wants healing (@any age) and unconditional sanctuary, those arrangements also have to made…so it does very much depend on many different circumstances etc as i have already stated…
i refer to my above caveat…’
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ps merry here is the whole post posted yesterday….
merry
no! i’m not, it’s far more complex than your simplistic view is implying/making out to be though, get out of your books….and if you think i’m going to post the massive range of options, events and manifold permutations you’ve got another thing coming…
are you seriously suggesting that a 3yr strolls into a police station (see my above posts and links) and reports the CSA/CA crime? or tell me what age a victim should report the crime? you really don’t get it! i am saying it’s the CJS that needs to changed,not the victim fit into it…BUT pay attention now…for one thing healing cannot start until others are aware/made aware of the crime, so it is implied as being reported in any case..depending on age of victim….and if one wants healing (@any age) and unconditional sanctuary, those arrangements also have to made…so it does very much depend on many different circumstances etc as i have already stated…
i refer to my above caveat…
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merry
overburdenddonkey – I was specifically asked for my opinion about one particular situation, so I gave it.
as was i ‘ Please feel free to comment.’
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OBD – “as was i ‘ Please feel free to comment.’”
Ha ha ha! At least you’ve got a sense of humour and you can take the mickey out of yourself!
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merry
whatever, i’ll get back to you on that
are you going to post back to me re my alleged denial…ie point it out to me….? i’ll likely not get back to you til tomorrow on it though…but don’t let that stop you posting back to me on this very important matter asap…
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merry
merry
overburdenddonkey – Perhaps you should think twice about telling other people how to handle their problems, just because you think one particular route worked for you.
that was a criticism of me from you i was actually asked to comment..a comment made before you claimed that lucy had given you permission to comment on her friends situation…and as such had nothing to do with the ‘advice’ you gave to lucy…though since i read her post before you imposed on her and her friend..i’d very much doubt that she actually welcomed/valued your advice/opinion on it literally…so imv you were taking the piss to respond in the manner you did, which showed utter contempt and disregard for/to what she had written, but there is nothing new there…
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overburdenddonkey – Perhaps you should also think twice before answering on behalf of other people!
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Wouldn’t it be a pity if someone leaked his address
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tiller
actually i’m not, i read your post! and i am giving you my opinion on it…i am a victim of CSA/CA as you plainly know….’I heard about a rape trial where the victim’s friends and family were in the public gallery. They booed when the defence asked inappropriate questions. The judge let them get away with it and even reprimanded the defence…… the defendant was found guilty’ you got this ‘vital info’, and it is hearsay…trying to make it all seem clear cut, easy and crush the view of others poster potential or otherwise, that plainly state you’re wrong….yet you used it to bolster your opinion with total disregard to how other posters would feel it…in relationship to the post in general….
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OBD – No, the point was that sometimes the criminal justice system treats people like people. Not often enough, I agree, but sometimes.
If it helps you to make something more sinister out if it, then go right ahead.
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Merry, don’t leap onto the bandwagon of an historic example of quite extreme domestic sexual violence. You were not there. You have no right of advice because the event is a part of history that is not yours and you only know because you read it on the internet.
You do not curry approval by exhibiting emotional vampirism and attain any integrity.
Your attempts at discourse on what is a life changing/wrecking set of circumstances for all who experience either CA or CSA are at the level of someone who has a bit of life experience ahead of them. I don’t care how old you are or aren’t. Stop pretending to know something you don’t.
If you had one iota of the seriousness of the matter, you might take a while to learn from those who have actually been involved with the horrible stuff. Those who have been abused, those who abuse. Right now, you stand no chance of even forming an opinion, as your knowledge is nil. Your responses in this thread come from a set of stereotypical, media spewed clichés borne of centuries of the cult of silence around child sex abuse.
Sadly, this can form the suffering of the abused too, enduring smart alecs who have decided what the response of the abused person should be at all times. As long as it fits with what you know of life eh Merry? Fuck that. People who have survived being abused as children, and gone on because of the compounding nature of abuse, to have their lives tyrannised by themselves, they do not need you and your fake interest or patronage.
Now, as earlier, go back to Chat magazines and/or mumsnet.
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tiller
you cited it in context of an everyday experience, and it is hearsay…so i don’t buy your extremely limp reply/excuse one bit…or is it that you think your the only one who has heard such stories and in fact had a life…but alas are rarely backed up by/with collaboration….we’re discussing specific issues here, that you perhaps try to involve yourself in but actually have no or extremely limited experience of judging by your replies…misdirect/distraction which is what the system does….oh well nothing new in your replies ho-hum…change will be a long time a coming….
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Lucy – If you didn’t want my opinion then why the fuck did you ask for it? That’s not a rhetorical question……
The sad thing is that for all your false indignation at my temerity to answer, you privately think my opinion was right.
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…because you haven’t criticised what I said, only that I said it.
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tiller
so if someone tells you fuck off what their, privately thinking indeed saying is come in for a cup of tea and offend me some more…
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“People who have survived being abused as children, and gone on because of the compounding nature of abuse, to have their lives tyrannised by themselves, they do not need you and your fake interest or patronage.”
That gets to the point. So what do you, with your massively greater knowledge and experience, think they DO need? ‘Money where your mouth is’ time……
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Lucy – You told the tale of your friend and posed the question “What would you do in those circumstances?” Do you have any answers yourself, or are you just bullshitting?
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tiller
certainly not dispose of or cut out the actual affects of abuse to suit your arguments…as if none of it really happened, but somehow must of done or else what am i doing here? oh yes being on trial…to prove what happened happened so that others can decide if what happened was real/traumatic and i need help to heal from the traumas or something else is wrong with me like a ‘chemical imbalance’…all my own fault ie ‘blame the victim instead of getting healing and defrosting the frozen terrors that blight one’s life…so again you prove you have no idea what you are talking about tiller….
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tiller
perhaps whilst you’re hanging around waiting for others….there is the question of Overburdened – I haven’t run away. It’s not possible to have a rational discussion with somebody who says something, then denies that they said it, when it’s right there in black and white.’ and the recent posts and indeed all the posts and links to take into a/c…which for some reason you continue to avoid answering in fact since i 1st posted in response to you yesterday re this matter…this>>posted yesterday ‘merry
no! i’m not, it’s far more complex than your simplistic view is implying/making out to be though, get out of your books….and if you think i’m going to post the massive range of options, events and manifold permutations you’ve got another thing coming…
are you seriously suggesting that a 3yr strolls into a police station (see my above posts and links) and reports the CSA/CA crime? or tell me what age a victim should report the crime? you really don’t get it! i am saying it’s the CJS that needs to changed,not the victim fit into it…BUT pay attention now…for one thing healing cannot start until others are aware/made aware of the crime, so it is implied as being reported in any case..depending on age of victim….and if one wants healing (@any age) and unconditional sanctuary, those arrangements also have to made…so it does very much depend on many different circumstances etc as i have already stated…
i refer to my above caveat’ in which i have plainly answered your accusations of denial here…
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OBD – You should think about reducing your incessant copying and re-copying of your own previous posts. It’s very boring, it makes the web page too long, and it also makes you look rather self-obsessed.
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tiller
ok i’ll stop posting to you, as you refuse to acknowledge that you’re wrong to accuse me of denial….
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OBD – No, that’s not what I said. As far as I’m concerned I welcome your posts, but I suggest you balance more to the succinct than the verbose. Thinking first is always a good idea.
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tiller
ok i’ll stop posting to you, as you refuse to acknowledge that you’re wrong to accuse me of denial….you claimed my denial as the reason why you stopped posting to me, and had not ducked for cover, can’t have it both ways pal….
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“you claimed my denial as the reason why you stopped posting to me, and had not ducked for cover, can’t have it both ways pal”
No I didn’t. Apparently you invented a “because” that wasn’t there.
Re: denial:
OBD – ““only after one has healed, if one should one choose, if one wants to, pursue the CJS… avenue….and not before…””
MT – “You have repeatedly said that the victim should not report the crimes to the police until they have recovered from the trauma.”
OBD – “no! i have not”
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Think the police are acting in a completely hypocritical way .on the 19th of dec 2014 4 plain clothes policemen in 2 unmarked police cars chased 18 year old Henry Hicks in Islington London .on his scooter ..there was no sirens turned on either ..they forced Henry off the road kand Henry collided with a parked car.killing Henry out right .the police have since have not made a statement the officers involved have been suspended on gross misconduct charges but are still at work .its outrageous the police close ranks with there own .yet make these statements at the same time .i suggest any police or other person who reads this goes to the justice for Henry Hicks .pagev.50 000 people in Islington are outraged with the police who harass and harangue our children daily ..justice for Henry Hicks .J4HH
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http://annaraccoon.com/2015/04/20/janners-janissaries/
WONDER WHY RACOON KEEPS DEFENDING THESE VIP ABUSERS. Maybe it’s her job?
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tiller aka bart
not true! you are trying to hyde your lack of experience with nitpicking semantic grammar antics, to try to big yourself up as some kind of an expert on the subject, shame on you and all like you…see all mine and lucy’s links and posts for the truth of what has been expressed and of the matter….the prosecution side of the CJS is highly toxic not fit for purpose, anti-healing, for the CRIME SCENE csa/ca victim, is not a natural healing environment that i would encourage anyone into…for long suffering unhealed victim it is, from the frying pan into the fire…it’s for society to solve, BY LISTENING TO US, with the expert words/help of the victims and expert therapists of which sadly there are very few…which is understandably why our culture is so toxic…it’s even bad for mature adult sex attack victims, just imagine if one’s whole life has been raped and ravaged by CSA/CA…A LONGER POST IS AVAILABLE IF REQUIRED…
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OBD – Previously you were SO anxious about me accusing you of denial, and me stopping posting (even though all evidence is to the contrary), and now you’ve forgotten about both of them!
I tell you what… how about getting back to the subject, and this time not going on and on ad-nauseam about Dr Bob Johnson, or re-posting yet more of your own posts. Maybe you could comment on the earlier posts from concernedkev and finkfirst, which seem to me to be the essence of the actual issue Tom raised.
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tiller aka bart…oh fuck it since these self servers,insist on posting their obsession with sanctifying/glorifying the prosecution side of the CJS i’ll post this now….it might get through their thick heads, but i won’t hold my breath…
no you don’t speak the truth, you make things up, i can’t make you thoroughly read my posts and links nor do a mind meld, you are very distrustful of the real live life evidence and experienced recollections of others, yet freely give/put out hearsay……anyone who has read my posts from the start, will know this (esp the post above April 20, 2015 at 8:28 pm) you want the victims to prolong their suffering even to the point of possibly never ending their suffering and sacrifice themselves still further, by being ‘socially responsible’ and come forward into a highly unnatural hostile, anti-healing environment for a highly illogical reasons….. when the truth is known this is plain to see as illogical and makes things even worse for victims and our culture…often being accused of ‘lacking courage’ and a being defacto sex abuser, if they don’t, more guilt is piled on the victims to perform….
so they are not encouraged by the systems ‘encouragement’…the crime scene is the victim the CJS from CPS/PRSOCUTION on is plain wrong and unnatural…victims don’t need encouragement to move into a HEALING environment…the CJS is not a healing environment and the healing craving victim naturally knows this…it’s the equivalent of running from a burning building into another burning building, coz it might be cooler for us, and not being able to get out, for a very long while…frying pan into the fire…
tiller
perhaps whilst you’re hanging around waiting for others….there is the question of Overburdened – I haven’t run away. It’s not possible to have a rational discussion with somebody who says something, then denies that they said it, when it’s right there in black and white.’ and the recent posts and indeed all the posts and links to take into a/c…which for some reason you continue to avoid answering in fact since i 1st posted in response to you yesterday re this matter…this>>posted YESTERDAY ‘merry
no! i’m not, it’s far more complex than your simplistic view is implying/making out to be though, get out of your books….and if you think i’m going to post the massive range of options, events and manifold permutations you’ve got another thing coming…
are you seriously suggesting that a 3yr strolls into a police station (see my above posts and links) and reports the CSA/CA crime? or tell me what age a victim should report the crime? you really don’t get it! i am saying it’s the CJS that needs to changed,not the victim fit into it… this is the operative part…
BUT pay attention now…
for one thing healing cannot start until others are aware/made aware of the crime, so it is implied as being reported in any case..depending on age of victim….
and if one wants healing (@any age) and unconditional sanctuary, those arrangements also have to made…
so it does very much depend on many different circumstances etc as i have already stated…
i refer to my above caveat’ in which i have plainly answered your accusations of denial here…
unless you believe that somehow an abused child is going to be giving themselves expert therapy and arranging sanctuary themselves and putting it on their credit cards…
an abused child is very easy to spot @ school with the right/knowing eyes, this is where the social responsibility lies and indeed starts…not on the shoulders of the already MASSIVELY BURDEND victims of CSA/CA you see why OBD now do you??…having experience of this i would know and you wouldn’t necessarily know unless you have been ‘close’ to it, AS I HAVE…
so you see the police etc would be automatically be made aware…and it’s no stretch of the imagination to suggest that the abusers details is now known…if this happens @ 6yrs old instead of 66yrs old there will be a whole different life’s outcome FOR ALL…
i specifically state it’s the prosecution stage that victims should avoid until they are healed…which @ a young age can be very rapid…but the abuser(s) who are now known to the police etc as they have been named by the victim, can then act to detain/curb the abusers early on….this is all through the eyes of a victim, my eyes…so as a victim very familiar with this system…i divide it up into police CJS and CPS CJS ie prosecution there is a line to cross…any victim reading my posts will know what i am saying is true and the distinctions i make, lay persons less so….as i have pointed out many times and here for example; ’tiller
you cited it in context of an everyday experience, and it is hearsay…so i don’t buy your extremely limp reply/excuse one bit…or is it that you think your the only one who has heard such stories and in fact had a life…but alas are rarely backed up by/with collaboration….we’re discussing specific issues here, that you perhaps try to involve yourself in but actually have no or extremely limited experience of judging by your replies…misdirect/distraction which is what the system does….oh well nothing new in your replies ho-hum…change will be a long time a coming’
my advice is don’t come forward to prosecute abusers, unless the whole system has become natural and victim friendly, the police side of things imo is okish, see my posts/links etc and lucy’s posts on this for problem areas…but it is a gateway to prosecution and this is where the problems for victims really start as ALL victims will know, it is wrong to try to fit the victim into this crazy system….if you’re being abused report it when you feel able to @ any age, but it will have already been spotted ie sex abusers easily spot their prey, and the police know more or less instantly when a person is in truth, it’s a fundamental part of their job, if they can, teachers etc can… it’s what happens next that’s the problem that must be solved by the system NOT by the long suffering victim..being SELF OBSESSED about healing, (healing is not a hobby) and this is the route to emotional health, the earlier one reports it or the abuse victim is spotted the better life outcome chances are for self, recovery of natural self esteem is vital…but as i say the system IS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE…
healing must come 1st…the pain and suffering is dumped on the victim and that then becomes the victims unchosen problem the victim didn’t choose to be abused it happened to them, the cause of the victims problem is societies problem to solve with the expert help of the victim and expert therapist of which there are very phew…
to dump the moral (ie need courage ffs what world do you live in?) problem onto the victim to solve is plain wrong…
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OBD – If you want to get things through thick heads, perhaps I can suggest three things:
1) Be succinct.
2) Use normal grammar, punctuation and spelling.
3) Think first.
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Merry it’s obvious to the whole world that you have absolutely no real knowledge of anything pertaining to child abuse, child sexual abuse or domestic violence.
For someone with such a massive gob on them and no knowledge, you have chosen to shoot off relentlessly, annoyed because people who do know more than you ever will about those issues, countered your vacuous, thicky tabloid opinions.
Remember, Chat magazine and mumsnet are your natural territory for childish debate, you probably shine there and have many followers. It’s no wonder you are floundering so badly here.
After reading your infantile, pathetic & ignorant sneering at OBD & seeing the vastness of your intellectual deficit in being able to understand the issues surrounding legal process in CA & CSA cases, chuckling at your insistence that I agree with you, my conclusion is that fucking off is the very best thing for you to do.
Merry, it’s time to know when you are beaten, do yourself a massive favour and fuck off.
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Oh look! Merry has now admitted to having nothing to contribute to the discussion by falling back on embarrassing, pedantic “ooo didn’t ooze da rite grammarrrr” do you really believe Merry that you present a cogent argument for anything?
A little word to the unwise for you Merry, one day, you might choose to spout your twaddle at someone who has experienced what you argue for (punishment, abuse, neglect) at the hands of the prison service, which is what you see as justice. They might choose to physically illustrate to you just why you are so wrong. People often do come out of prison in a more violent, disordered state than they went in. How might they react, when you with your jumped up desperation for attention start spewing forth your ignorant crap? I’d book your seat in A&E now, queues are long.
Instructions as before. Merry fuck off.
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lucy
i feel differently, in that these people are they very people we must take on…granted only @ times small doses perhaps….as they do have a habit of grating one’s nerves
….but he/she will be back under a different guise….luckily there are signature style methods of questioning, presentations, levels of intrusive rudeness etc all are very easy to spot…a quick signature style comparison with previous posters here and on other sites will soon confirm this…note he/she often uses think…first…i’m used to spotting this style now…
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Lucy – The same advice to you… be succinct. You could have saved yourself some time, because all you actually said was “Merry fuck off”. To this intellectual argument I answer “No”.
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“i feel differently, in that these people are they very people we must take on…granted only @ times small doses perhaps….as they do have a habit of grating one’s nerves”
Yes OBD, we agree! Take on EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING you disagree with (and keep it short and punchy!) because that’s what getting towards a better society is ALL about.
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merry
finally, do fuck off…
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OBD – Ha ha ha! That’s quite funny… but the answer is still no.
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merry
yeah i know you wouldn’t fuck off literally even if i wanted you to pests like you never do when they’re free to post online, it’s not a door i can slam on you, as i would normally …obsessively posts the same crap under different names and having been banned from other web site and even put into heavy moderation on this web site…and even recommending a post in one of your other names posted on this very thread is sad to say the least…dr bob has began to update his web site due to demand… 🙂 you’re here to take the piss out of people, but as long as people know your style, carry on imv….
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National disgrace! “class rules” from 50yrs ago still apply? Full marks to the police!
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OBD – …and you’re apparently only here to incessantly sell the services of an old quack psychiatrist named Dr Bob Johnson, who long ago failed in his field, and now claims he can cure 100% of all mental illnesses with just one treatment!
Do you actually have an opinion about the subject Tom raised, other than using it to sell a product, as your first post shows?
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miller
as you believe that i’m not on topic and i believe that i am, surely it’s your duty to spell out what being on topic on this blog post is…ie ‘blog posts for dummies’…so please do explain including your trail of logic and reasoning, why i’m not on topic and/or what i should be writing about….
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OBD – You misunderstand. You’re free to write about anything you like. I was just asking if you have an opinion about Lord Janner rather than Dr Bob Johnson. No problem if you don’t.
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p s merry dr bob johnson is not a failure in his field which i will discuss after you have explained to me why i’m off topic, re my above post and why the subject of dr bob johnson is now on topic according to you…
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merry
imv i’m by implication discussing janner, but not explicitly…..people like this are shut down emotionally and have a massive sense of entitlement…i am more concerned with scrapping the emotionally shut down, prosecution side of the CJS system that treats CSA/CA victims, victim CRIME SCENE, like things….(the police side would just reshape, schools, hospitals, all the social infrastructure is already in place)…and not just focusing on one grain of sand in the system ie janner, he’s a symptom imv…millions suffer CSA/CA….a system that controls all power and resources is not going to be shut down with guilt and shame that it is incapable of recognizing let alone feeling…the change must come @ grassroots…we don’t need them for this and yet we also do, this is where one part of the conflict is…we must be less, become less, and less like the system, in the way we live…we must refind/recover our social humanity…the word is RECOVERY because that’s what we need to do, too heal, recover what is lost…ie live a simple basic life…living as lightly as possible in our bio-sphere…
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OBD, I’d give up on this Merry creature, it’s a troll. It has no experience of any of the issues, nor any knowledge.
It lives in its tiny, blinkered, lonely & angry world, solely to disrupt the emotional stability of other posters. It’s a LULZ merchant of a very poor calibre.
That’s all it is
That’s all it has.
Shame.
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lucy
yeah you’re right, he/she a concern troll that clogs the post up, by posting outrageous comments….that for a while i feel compelled to reply to in hope that shehe won’t pear shape the proceedings my concern is that @ 1st shehe sounds plausible..to draw people in and grind them down….i realized that my last post to you might have sounded odd, it did to me after i pressed send, apologies for that…
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lucy ps
shehe uses different names to get in it takes me a few posts to realize this by then they’ve got in a bit…they do it to grind one down, shehe’s doing it again i know, thanks for you intervention…
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OBD – Back on topic – This victim clearly thinks that Janner should be prosecuted through the criminal justice system, whilst you seem to disagree that any good can possibly come of using that route. Is that a fair summary?
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merry
no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…
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OBD, it didn’t sound odd really, the contradictions, confusions and conflicts that arise when these matters are discussed and intruded upon by the Merrys of this world, are common, it’s what they thrive on. They rely on us having integrity, because unlike us, they don’t have any.
Whatever name they use, they will never be right 🙂
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…and they’ll never be healed either 😉
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lucy
i was only referring to you telling him to fuck off in that post and not the other content…because shehe feeds on exasperation’s of others…you meant him to fuck off, but i knew that shehe wouldn’t…
it made me feel sad because shehe wouldn’t actually fuck off for you (my projection prehaps?)….and also i knew who shehe was/is before that time…but i hadn’t had the right moment to say until your intervention, to say, as your intervention post presented the right moment too say….glad that’s cleared it up…?? 🙂
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OBD – Would a better summary of your views be that victims of child abuse would do far better by following the teachings of Dr Bob, than by their abuser being prosecuted for their crimes?
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Aaah ok OBD, no problem. Trolls are fun to bait, ‘cept they don’t like it when the tables turn. Poor mites. I’m not sad it hasn’t fucked off, because they never do, but sometimes it’s good just to tell them to do so.
Merry only takes the piss out of Dr Bob because Merry doesn’t understand much about anything and may not have achieved anything in their life.
Look at the post above @ 5:09pm, demanding that you answer a load of fallacious, miss-the-point nonsense that reduces the matter down to mere click bait yes/no.
Merry takes the reductive approach because Merry hasn’t the mind to understand anything so complex, that both abuser and the abused need healing.
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lucy
the teachings??? wtf…
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I have no idea what Merry is on about now OBD and I don’t think Merry does either.
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lucy
trouble/alarming thing is people like that are making the decisions about our treatments and care…
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OBD – Does this ring a bell? – “I’m an emotional plumber. I tell these men I’m teaching them about their emotions and where they come from and what is going on inside their head.”
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merry
i tell what you find out what he means by fully studying all of his works and get back to me on that…meanwhile back in the real world… no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…
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merry
actually you’ll never get it, i’ll give you a clue …he is talking to men in parkhurst prison in a language that they will understand, it’s called communication… meanwhile back in the real world… no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…
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“I’m an emotional plumber. I tell these men I’m teaching them about their emotions and where they come from and what is going on inside their head.”
You think that’s communication? Would you agree that communication tends to be a two-way thing? You know… kind of like… questions and asking people about their opinions and feelings and all silly stuff like that?
Plumbers just claim to have fixed the boiler, give you a huge bill and then fuck off……
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merry
nothing wrong in it i suppose, but i don’t talk to a newspaper or tv and expect a reply….no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…
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UBD (not a typo) – Since you found out what it means (about 18 Dec 2014), you absolutely love the word “caveat”, don’t you? You actually think that using it all the time means it’s unnecessary to explain anything you say! Do you know how many times you used it in this thread alone?
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merry
well change YOUR attitude then!
no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…
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OBD – You’re right. I will turn over a new leaf and change my attitude. Will you do the same, and especially stop telling people to fuck off? Is that a deal?
Please can you, with your important experience as an abuse victim, say whether you think that victims of child abuse would (on the whole) do far better by following the works of Dr Bob, than by their abuser being prosecuted for their crimes?
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To be fair I don’t believe Rolf Harris had been diagnosed with dementia as I understand Janner has. But your point is still valid because there doesn’t appear to be a level playing field for others with the same diagnosis.
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Jimmy Saville was dead but his victims still had recognition and their pain and suffering wasn’t swept under the carpet, they were heard. If he can’t stand in the dock, fine. It’s not like they brought Savilles’ coffin into the court room.
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merry
posted in disgust…
yeah! i see what you mean it’s a really great idea, to instead of intervening @ ie 6yr old child and wait many yrs ie 40…before the CSA/CA victim does on the odd occasion, only when the evidence against the abuser(s) is overwhelming and then put the onus on the crime scene long suffering victim, to prove it in a court of due process…
notwithstanding…well change YOUR attitude then!
no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…
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OBD – I don’t understand your reply. Why was my question disgusting? I didn’t say anything about intervening at all, whether the victim is 6 years old or 46 years old. Perhaps I can ask you the question again? If it wasn’t clear then perhaps you can explain why and I’ll try again.
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it’s beyond my power to communicate on an open access blog, with those who are not willing to thoroughly read my and other experienced posters comments and links and acknowledge in full that they have…rather they dismiss them by claiming ie bad punctuation or grammar and/or one expresses too much, constantly criticize style and state of mind of posters, and project onto them …claims one is in denial then when one proves they are not and fails to acknowledge this and gradually tries to reframe the debate, under their terms of reference and put key prime posts into distant memory ie try to create the debate start again anew, as if, this is the present start of the debate and all that has gone before is dealt with and indeed HISTORIC…fail to hold onto, in memory the info that i have posted and relate to it, bearing in mind you intervened to my posts 1st, not the other way round, ie questioned me 1st, but have failed to respond to my posts in the spirit of open communication and furtherance of understanding from the CSA/CA victims pov, despite mine and the protests of others and have assumed to know best, for us, and also freely acknowledge that you wish to seek my experienced info, only to callously dismiss it when i and others do.. ….notwithstanding…well change YOUR attitude then!
no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…merry, i have already thoroughly covered that and all, i hope, (it’s possible that i have left some vital info out, although i can’t think what) other issues that you have raised in my above posts and links….so once again i refer you to a thorougher reading of all my above posts and links, for your greater understanding of the issues involved…
unless you can find anything else that i can reasonably comment on, that is not already covered by my above posts and links, i am unable to add any further comment….an interesting study indeed…
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OBD – I acknowledge that I had already thoroughly read every one of your posts in this thread and followed all the links (except the Alice Miller Wikipedia one, because I’d already read it).
Will you communicate with me now? How about what you think of my question?
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OBD – Maybe I could try a different and directly on-topic question – Do you think Lord Janner should have been prosecuted in 2007 when the case was in the hands of CPS lawyers? If anyone posting on here has a valid and valuable opinion, then surely it’s you……
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merry
i see the victim(s) as the central issue here…not the abuser(s)….this has been pointed out to you by me and expert other, but you ignore it….and not on your particular bias, that you’re hell bent on pursuing and supporting the states views on this issue and blaming the victim(s)…but i’ve already answered implied or otherwise, this…healing is not a linguistic/semantic game…healing does not happen coz the victim can or cannot find words to express their suffering….healing has nothing to do with language words or acquired vocabulary…nor thinking first….it’s about the expression of blocked/trapped/frozen emotions that when vented create relief and set one’s mind free…cognitive gum/fog removed….ie the fact that victims in certain situations CANNOT think straight as in those situations they were trained NOT to think straight….which is why you don’t understand it…coz you think that people should think first and as long as they think your way as well..i think first through my lens NOT yours…to understand you must get past your stuck views and only you can do that….healing is completely devoid of the system atm until the system decides other wise…
having thoroughly looked the whole picture and reviewed all positions, including some posters stale positions, known to me as a victim, now a survivor of CSA/CA…i categorically state; i have already answered those question’s and much much more and moved the debate into a common sense position, that you for sure have failed to, and/or refuse, to grasp, as yet, and as the truth of the (being a) victim and survivor (and healing from it’s affects) of CSA/CA dictates my position, it cannot be changed…imv you’re stuck in a war of attrition trying to wear opponents down until they surrender…
i can only continue to repeat myself…
it’s beyond my power to communicate on an open access blog, with those who are not willing to thoroughly read my and other experienced posters comments and links and acknowledge in full that they have…rather they dismiss them by claiming ie bad punctuation or grammar and/or one expresses too much, constantly criticize style and state of mind of posters, and project onto them …claims one is in denial then when one proves they are not and fails to acknowledge this and gradually tries to reframe the debate, under their terms of reference and put key prime posts into distant memory ie try to create the debate start again anew, as if, this is the present start of the debate and all that has gone before is dealt with and indeed HISTORIC…fail to hold onto, in memory the info that i have posted and relate to it, bearing in mind you intervened to my posts 1st, not the other way round, ie questioned me 1st, but have failed to respond to my posts in the spirit of open communication and furtherance of understanding from the CSA/CA victims pov, despite mine and the protests of others and have assumed to know best, for us, and also freely acknowledge that you wish to seek my experienced info, only to callously dismiss it when i and others do.. ….notwithstanding…well change YOUR attitude then!
no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…merry, i have already thoroughly covered that and all, i hope, (it’s possible that i have left some vital info out, although i can’t think what) other issues that you have raised in my above posts and links….so once again i refer you to a thorougher reading of all my above posts and links, for your greater understanding of the issues involved…unless you can find anything else that i can reasonably comment on, that is not already covered by my above posts and links, i am unable to add any further comment….an interesting study indeed…
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“i see the victim(s) as the central issue here…not the abuser(s)….this has been pointed out to you by me and expert other, but you ignore it….and not on your particular bias, that you’re hell bent on pursuing and supporting the states views on this issue and blaming the victim(s)”
What a strange thing to say! The state is obviously protecting Lord Janner from prosecution. The victim wants Janner to be prosecuted, I have argued all along that he should be prosecuted, the majority of the public think he should be prosecuted… whilst you (and Lucy) apparently think he should NOT be prosecuted.
So it is YOU who is supporting the state’s view. If that isn’t true then why, in all the reams you have written, have you NEVER supported the victim’s wishes and agreed that Janner should be prosecuted?
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merry
victim(s) abuser(s), i am not referring to one particular victim nor abuser as you are!
now if you read my posts and links, you will see that fact…PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE…STOP RELATING/FIXATING TO/ON THE ABUSER(S)…this blog post is about the victim….read the victims statement…what does he want?? what does he say?? IT LEAPS OUT OF THE PAGE…
he wants what all victims want and that is HEALING…..which is what justice ACTUALLY MEANS!! the victim(s) want their lives recovered to BEFORE they were abused, they want their lives back!!…..victims know that their EMOTIONS are STUCK, which is why they’re trying to RELEASE THEIR STUCK EMOTIONS AND FULL FURY AND RAGE @ THE ABUSER(S) AND WHAT THE ABUSER ACTUALLY DID @ THE TIME, KEY WORD; HISTORIC, the abuser(s) presence is not required to do this, only a figment of the abuser(s) is required and the system i telling the victims how this is done or MIGHT be done by prosecuting abuser(s), this give the abuser(s) retained power over the victim(s)…THE VICTIM(S) KNOWS THAT EMOTIONS ARE STUCK, no one else seems to, but then, only the victim(s) would know this!!! ….i have been thoroughly describing specifically arguing for EARLY interventions and HEALING 1ST…ie 6yrs old…but you’re ignoring those posts and links and fixating on abuser(s), which is what the system does….the system is telling the victims that this is the only way to get justice(healing) it is NOT…re all of my posts but you claimed that victim(s) needed COURAGE, read my replies…will it sink in, i won’t hold my breath…
i refer you to this post starting; i see the victim(s) as the central issue here…not the abuser(s)….this has been pointed out to you by me and expert other, but you ignore it….and not on your particular bias ending;unless you can find anything else that i can reasonably comment on, that is not already covered by my above posts and links, i am unable to add any further comment….an interesting study indeed…
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OBD – “PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE…STOP RELATING/FIXATING TO/ON THE ABUSER(S)”
In everything both you and ‘Lucy’ have written, there has never been a single word of condemnation of child abusers, just frequently repeated sympathy for them. This is starting to look rather odd……
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merry
there you go again trying to change the subject with a goad…read my above post please…and answer it fully…
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Crikey, is this Merry thicko troll still at it?
Anyone with motives other than prurient, sleazy trolling can see that recognising that both the abused and the abuser are both damaged, and both need help, is not coming out in support of paedophilia.
Only a total moron would think it is.
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overburdenddonkey ……and STILL you can’t bring yourself to condemn or even criticise child abuse or child abusers. I have reached my conclusion about you now, and it makes me feel rather sick to have conversed with you without realising it.
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lucy
yep..but i got to the nub, that all victims know that they need emotional release and that all victims seek this from the 1st time they were abused, to recover their normality, which is the time before they were abused…which proves the works of the various therapists i have mentioned here, and our writings and cognition’s on the subject…all victims know that their emotions are stuck, which is why they’re trying desperately to release them….ie get justice, but through release of what?? stuck trapped emotions that’s what…but few listen to the victim, and only think that they do…and then when victims speak guess what we are called liars..and words put into our mouths…
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p s typo; but few listen to the victim, and many only think/make out, that they do, too busy talking @ victims, ducking for cover ‘dancerer arounders’ in denial of their own blocked emotions, ramming their own opinions down our throats …and then when victims speak guess what we are called liars..and….
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merry
pratt! i’ve done nothing but criticize child abuse…and by implication abuser(s)….
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p s merry
but not in the way YOU want me to!!
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overburdenddonkey and Lucy – To both of you… a very simple question with a very simple answer:
Do you think child abusers have committed a crime which should be prosecuted under law?
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merry
once again i refer you to my posts and links above….stop trying to re-manufacture/re new this debate and wipe out history…if you cannot see my answer there then you’re the problem, not the solution….all you’re doing is try to wear down your opponents until they surrender…ie THE VICTIM IS THE CRIME SCENE…note the word crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime,crime….
i can only continue to repeat myself…
it’s beyond my power to communicate on an open access blog, with those who are not willing to thoroughly read my and other experienced posters comments and links and acknowledge in full that they have…rather they dismiss them by claiming ie bad punctuation or grammar and/or one expresses too much, constantly criticize style and state of mind of posters, and project onto them …claims one is in denial then when one proves they are not and fails to acknowledge this and gradually tries to reframe the debate, under their terms of reference and put key prime posts into distant memory ie try to create the debate start again anew, as if, this is the present start of the debate and all that has gone before is dealt with and indeed HISTORIC…fail to hold onto, in memory the info that i have posted and relate to it, bearing in mind you intervened to my posts 1st, not the other way round, ie questioned me 1st, but have failed to respond to my posts in the spirit of open communication and furtherance of understanding from the CSA/CA victims pov, despite mine and the protests of others and have assumed to know best, for us, and also freely acknowledge that you wish to seek my experienced info, only to callously dismiss it when i and others do.. ….notwithstanding…well change YOUR attitude then!
no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…merry, i have already thoroughly covered that and all, i hope, (it’s possible that i have left some vital info out, although i can’t think what) other issues that you have raised in my above posts and links….so once again i refer you to a thorougher reading of all my above posts and links, for your greater understanding of the issues involved…unless you can find anything else that i can reasonably comment on, that is not already covered by my above posts and links, i am unable to add any further comment….an interesting study indeed…
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“Do you think child abusers have committed a crime which should be prosecuted under law?”
overburdenddonkey – The vast majority of people would have absolutely no hesitation in saying “yes”, as would I. You very carefully did not.
‘Lucy’ – What is your answer?
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merry
liar, i have already said if the system feels the need to prosecute the abuser(s) then so be it…but that does not help the victim in most all circumstances and i gave example where prosecution might be helpful to/for the victim…you continue to try to stuff words in our mouths….and blatantly ignore my responses…
once again i refer you to my posts and links above….stop trying to re-manufacture/re new this debate and wipe out history…if you cannot see my answer there then you’re the problem, not the solution….all you’re doing is try to wear down your opponents until they surrender…ie THE VICTIM IS THE CRIME SCENE…note the word crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime,crime….
i can only continue to repeat myself…
it’s beyond my power to communicate on an open access blog, with those who are not willing to thoroughly read my and other experienced posters comments and links and acknowledge in full that they have…rather they dismiss them by claiming ie bad punctuation or grammar and/or one expresses too much, constantly criticize style and state of mind of posters, and project onto them …claims one is in denial then when one proves they are not and fails to acknowledge this and gradually tries to reframe the debate, under their terms of reference and put key prime posts into distant memory ie try to create the debate start again anew, as if, this is the present start of the debate and all that has gone before is dealt with and indeed HISTORIC…fail to hold onto, in memory the info that i have posted and relate to it, bearing in mind you intervened to my posts 1st, not the other way round, ie questioned me 1st, but have failed to respond to my posts in the spirit of open communication and furtherance of understanding from the CSA/CA victims pov, despite mine and the protests of others and have assumed to know best, for us, and also freely acknowledge that you wish to seek my experienced info, only to callously dismiss it when i and others do.. ….notwithstanding…well change YOUR attitude then!
no and i will not answer/furnish that question/statement as you have no idea of what it is to be a CSA/CA victim…and as you refuse persistently to listen to them…i refer you to my posts and links and my caveat…merry, i have already thoroughly covered that and all, i hope, (it’s possible that i have left some vital info out, although i can’t think what) other issues that you have raised in my above posts and links….so once again i refer you to a thorougher reading of all my above posts and links, for your greater understanding of the issues involved…unless you can find anything else that i can reasonably comment on, that is not already covered by my above posts and links, i am unable to add any further comment….an interesting study indeed…
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and ps added to my above post i also mean prosecution in bringing abuser to a/c rather than overtly punishing them…overt punishment is counter productive…you’ll likely try or want to ask a question based on this short ps….
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No Merry, I’m not going to answer your desperate little question, because you seem incapable of reading and actual comprehension. I see you dancing in the thread, demanding answers & implying posters are abusers all because they know more about a subject than you.
Merry, you are an angry little ball of damage. Until you address that fact, you really do need to fuck right off.
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overburdenddonkey – No, I don’t want to ask you another question. Your opinion that child abusers should not be prosecuted is very clear.
Lucy – It’s not a little question to victims, or future victims. Your opinion that child abusers should not be prosecuted, and anyone who thinks they should must fuck off, is also very clear.
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merry
notwithstanding that is not true and certainly NOT the victims role nor responsibility to prosecute abusers….
ok, why do you believe an abuser should be prosecuted….?
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merry
where’s your answer or will i have to wait several hrs for it, in your usual control freak manner…you posed the original question not me i have already answered it many times…you wish to betray me and lucy as abusers…it’s your responsibility to answer promptly as i answer your questions promptly but even though often no reply and/or no full acknowledgement of posters as you try to exasperate and grind down views that don’t suit your world view you did this as think first and every other character you have created to grind people down with…
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imv the victims statement is @ the center of this blog post….focal point of that is the much waited for release/expression of trapped emotions, thus freedom from mental pain and torment, which he/any victim rightly seeks…i take the knowledgeable position…of seeing what the system does now and what it ought to be doing…all many are doing is abdicating social responsibility and passing the buck onto agencies and trying to legitimize the system as being fit for purpose, which it is plainly not, boxes ticked….what the system is doing now is abandoning and betraying the child victims…now it’s ‘child abuse, prosecute, job done’, no it’s not job done…as the victim needs to heal and their needs are being neglected….
see all mine and lucy’s posts and links, above for details of how a new system can be achieved to end and relieve the incredible damage and suffering CSA/CA does in and too our culture…
merry i refer you to this blog tompride /2015/04/18/ starting with my 1st post that you have failed to fully acknowledge…
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merry
of course you can maintain your merry tiller ie steering/plouging, tiny minded little dances because of the serious issues involved and for those affected by them…and CSA/CA is a very serious issue, for it’s victims…..and i’m still waiting for your response!!
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merry
ok 5 mins if you haven’t answered by then, you’re being ignored….
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Here we go Merry, I found a link to help you –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/topic/reading-and-understanding
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Merry Tiller said: April 23, 2015 at 4:14 pm
“Your opinion that child abusers should not be prosecuted, and anyone who thinks they should must fuck off, is also very clear”
Only in your damaged little mind Merry.
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lucy
no wonder victims rarely stand a chance many in our culture have abandoned nature, and common sense….i remember posting this link to you…. http://www.soteria.freeuk.com/176_16-18.pdf sums up some…
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lucy
imv, some try to exclude us from our own experiences and think that we should be outsiders looking in…
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OBD, I know the link and every word is true. Nihilism seems to be a word I’m using a lot this year. The truth is too hard for the masses, they’ve been fed the toxic pablum for too long. It’s what they know, it’s what feels safe. Bland suffocating hysteria is their oxygen. Worse, they don’t know what they do. It’s a cheap thrill, it’s a box ticked, it’s an eternal ticket for the gravy train.
Self destructive apes gone wrong, that’s us. Our destruction shows us just how efficient evolution is. Now if we’d been born with smaller brains, we’d be doing a lot better I am sure.
Fancy being that scared of a problem that you exclude the answer before you!
That’s how and why we are excluded. Religious dogma and the fearful arrogance of homo sapiens has a lot to answer for.
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lucy
dogma fearful arrogance yes @ the heart….scared of power loss from and by those in command…kept dependent emotionally on others…sell out humanity for
desires met over need!!…you reflect my thoughts too….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Miller_(psychologist)…
‘Even psychiatrists, psychoanalysts and clinical psychologists were unconsciously afraid to blame parents for the mental disorders of their clients, she contended. According to Miller, mental health professionals were also creatures of the poisonous pedagogy internalized in their own childhood. This explained why the command “Honor thy parents” was one of the main targets in Miller’s school of psychology.[29]
Miller called electroconvulsive therapy “a campaign against the act of remembering.” In her book Abbruch der Schweigemauer (The Demolition of Silence), she also criticized psychotherapists’ advice to clients to forgive their abusive parents, arguing that this could only hinder recovery through remembering and feeling childhood pain. It was her contention that the majority of therapists fear this truth and that they work under the influence of interpretations culled from both Western and Oriental religions, which preach forgiveness by the once-mistreated child. She believed that forgiveness did not resolve hatred, but covered it in a dangerous way in the grown adult: displacement on scapegoats, as she discussed in her psycho-biographies of Adolf Hitler and Jürgen Bartsch, both of whom she described as having suffered severe parental abuse.[30]
A common denominator in Miller’s writings is her explanation of why human beings prefer not to know about their own victimization during childhood: to avoid unbearable pain. She believed that the unconscious command of the individual, not to be aware of how he or she was treated in childhood, led to displacement: the irresistible drive to repeat abusive parenting in the next generation of children or direct unconsciously the unresolved trauma against others (war, terrorism, delinquency).,[31][32] or against him or herself (eating disorders, drug addiction, depression).’ ……the true shall set you free, but why worry about truth, when there is entertainment to be had…
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ps lucy….the works of percy and mary shelly inspired mk gandhi..it’s easy to see why…
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” gandhi….
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“It is quite natural for children to awaken sexual desire in the adult” – Dr Alice Miller, 1998
NO IT IS NOT!!!
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being raped is like having one’s skin ripped off and held up in front of one, being torn to shreds so as one cannot put it back on again….
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overburdenddonkey – …and yet scum like you think that people who rape children should not be prosecuted. Your hypocrisy and immorality are almost unbelievable.
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merry
now you call a healed CSA/CA victim scum your toxic vile nastiness has no limits,
nearly beyond belief except i have come across the likes of you so many times in my life…i am not in your world anymore…
i have repeatedly stated that IT IS NOT/NOR SHOULD IT BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE VICTIM TO PROSECUTE THE ABUSER….i have already stated what imo is the best way of minimizing this issue in my posts above…..it is for the system to find a way of prosecuting the abuser without directly involving the child in the proceedings…the child needs healing and justly so…THE CHILD IS THE CRIME SCENE….NOT A WASHING MACHINE….
notwithstanding that is not true and certainly NOT the victims role nor responsibility to prosecute abusers….
ok, why do you believe an abuser should be prosecuted….? see all my caveats….
reply to my question quickly please as the answer must already be @ your finger tips…’well you should know this if you’re a decent human being’ answer will not do!
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As above Merry…
I found a link to help you –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/topic/reading-and-understanding
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This Merry Tiller commenter is quite similar to that FinkFirst thing. Same relentless and deliberate misunderstanding of what is plainly written and explained. It has the same limited range of self control, it yearns and demands, switching back and forth between arguments in its pitifully tiny grasp of any issue, it is hopeless, whoever it is.
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lucy
that’s because they are one and the same person….
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…aaah, thought so OBD.
So the idiot count remains unchanged. Phew.
Every cloud etc 🙂
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lucy
So the idiot count remains unchanged. Phew. no, not quite but @ least we know who they are…and their cheek to call us dishonest et al….great learning curve is all… 🙂
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ps lucy
no, not quite but @ least we know who they are…and their cheek to call us dishonest et al….SOUNDS DAFT…i mean @ least we know how to spot them….
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lucy
silence from the hordes….i expect their busy administering justice elsewhere…
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aaarrrggg i mean, they’re…must be contagion… 🙂
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Maybe the silence is due to Merry/Fink spending time on the link I supplied?
*wishful thinking* 😉
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lucy
without a doubt….i guess waiting for a breakthrough from those who hyde on social media…can be seen as a validation or hope over fear…hope over fear in this case…indeed, ‘beyond fear’..they put an historic gap between events and hope the past has been forgotten…
you know how children cover their faces thinking their hidden from view…see where i’m going with this? 🙂
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doing it again….they’re…
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Yep, those three monkeys.
Hear no..
See no…
Speak no…
…all the while compressing their fear into a tiny, dense ball that could explode any time.
I’m glad I’m not Merry/Fink
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lucy
squeezed into an area the size of a pea, super dense matter..is that the precursor to a big bang ….? 🙂
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Smaller than the tiniest of all peas!
Yes, a big bang is imminent, alas not one to produce a beautiful universe, one more akin to what happens when the ventilation system at the sewage works breaks down, no one notices, then it’s fag break time and…. 😉
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lucy
can’t make my mind up, MND…multiple name disorder…? MID/MPD/DID doesn’t quite work…..?
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It’s a case of TDS! Troll Desperation Syndrome.
The hapless victims go down with this when all avenues of trolling are closed to them, usually because the “victim” has encountered well constructed debate from people who know what they are talking about.
Early symptoms are the creation of many “sock puppet” accounts from which to show the world their desperate state, the loss of literacy and comprehension skills, wild ranting and a sequence of deluded fabrication that usually results in the “victim” calling every other commenter ” a paedophile” or “a Nazi”
The most effective treatment for this escalating and deteriorating condition is for the “victim” to have a bloody long hard look at their own issues and to stop projecting them onto the rest of the internet.
Going outside for a breath of fresh air has also been shown to be beneficial 🙂
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And Lucy plays the witch hunt game and fails.
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Two people who don’t think people who rape children should punished, congratulating each other. This is so sickening.
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bob
come on put your money where your mouth is, lets get it all out into the open for once and all….we’ll find who’s on a witch hunt then, and who the true victims of it are…oh i forgot you’re not speaking to me anymore are you?
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bridge
i was raped many times, i’m a survivor of CSA/CA…leave your archaic views out….
PUNISHED NO WAY, detained restrained and treated for their symptoms in custody yes….
PUNISHMENT CURES NOTHING AND MAKES THINGS MUCH WORSE, can’t you see the evidence for this with your own eyes?? ….move on with ducking stool views please… see prof joe sim present powerful vid punishment, a failed social experiment on youtube and 1hr and a bit long…..
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There’s a clue in the title ” CROWN Prosecution Service ” … it is only there to serve the Royals and their obedient servants – they all stink and the sooner we abolish the monarchy, the house of lords and all the absurdly privileged the better chance we have of living in a society of real justice.
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pete
exactly, we’re crown property…. vote snp they’re gunning for the HoL’s…
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The problem is that for many many years rapists of children have not been prosecuted, convicted and punished at all, not because they have. Of course punishment makes things worse for the criminals. That’s the whole point.
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How amazing that bobchewie and Bridge, two people who know absolutely fuck all about me, have decided, because they don’t have even basic reading/comprehension skills, that I don’t think paedophiles should be prosecuted.
Both of these two idiots have sadly gone down with TDS, you can see the symptoms, sticking out like a sore thumb. Sadly, both appear to be beyond treatment.
The pair of you really need to go get some education. Your appalling level of stupidity is no excuse for abusing those who have already been abused. If either of you had the courage of OBD in speaking openly online about their abuse, you’d still be several miles short of having a microgram of integrity or intelligence.
Bob Chewie, your outrage indicates that you are deliberately seeking out another heart attack. I think idiocy might do for you first.
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Do you think pedophiles should be prosecuted?
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bridge
no it’s not, the problems and solutions are as i have stated in all of my above posts…. i 1st asked for help in 1956, when i was 4, yes my abuser should have been stopped, but the act of stopping them DOES NOT HEAL the damage that they caused to me, their abuse simply intensified to shut me up and have whatever kicks they got out of it until i no longer felt anything, i had gone away…. i had been fighting for help until i met my expert therapist in 1984> she helped me immensely to find my own mind… i can’t make you have my insights, i can only share it with you, to bring a greater understanding of the issues involved, as i’m trying now to do….but you’ll likely just make another sound deadening comment…
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Bridge/Merry/Fink I’ll make this simple for you. I can see that you are struggling badly
1. Read my comments & ask an adult to check your comprehension of them.
2. Fuck off.
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Yes if they are commiting crimes of course
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bob
and you think the victims should prosecute the abusers, such a big hearted human being that you are….lined up behind the long suffering victims pushing them though the doors of ‘justice’…glory be, so selfless…
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Bridge. So I am an idiot. And paedo criminals should be removed from society because of the threat they pose. To ignore that puts vulnerable children at risk.
The re offending rates are quite high
There are a lot of concerns about how big this crime is. It is an international problem and reaches across all parts of society
They don’t walk about with a I’m a paedo t shirt. Though having said that. Some Oddly enough do. But it’s couches on cute language such as ” boy lover ” and ” girl lover ” they connect to organisations known to have involved trafficking children
This isn’t the odd one or two abuser who because of difficluties got themselves into a mess. These are Hardened characters well connected and even Profit from it
Quite why you seem to attack me and over a unexpected medical problem is beyond anyone’s comprehension
” look at you you are mad because you disagree with me. No wonder you have cancer ”
Pointless.
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bob
you’re just another bookworm who think’s they know it all….?!
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lucy
such are the joy’s of mistaken id and/or TDS, when protagonists argue with each other…practice in the mirror and in shadow surely…
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So bobchewie is just another prurient bystander in a long old queue of the clueless, all falling over themselves to tell us how to feel, what to think, desperate to educate us all (with tabloid cuttings) about the causes and effects of paedophilia, both as organised, multiple crime and adventitious activity?
Wow, just wow.
Actually bobchewie, I’m attacking you for being so determinedly thick and refusing to comprehend a simple argument for a humanist approach to both the safety of the individual victim (potential or actual) and society. I don’t expect you to agree with it. Most people who haven’t the slightest real experience in this area are pretty shocked when they are told that the real deal to reduce harm starts with healing for all involved.
The system we have now does not work to protect or reduce the harm to survivors. It never has and it never will, because it further brutalises both the survivor (be they infant or geriatric) and the abuser. Healing for anyone is rare. Without healing, there is no safety.
Yes, the wealthy, organised and well connected can hide behind any construct they fancy and get away with all the harms they have caused. Rich or poor, those who harm others in any way are damaged themselves. Please feel free to wallow in the punitive, barbaric creed of medieval times if it gives you comfort. But don’t expect anything to change for the better for anyone involved in this type of life wrecking nightmare whilst you and your mates are out in lynch mob mode.
Don’t blame me for your lack of comprehension, your reductive hysteria or your ignorance.
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Humanist. Does not bode well atm
How do you apply humanist approach when standing next to parents in mortuary looking at the remains of their child after these criminals have had their ” fun ” with their offspring.
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bob
i’m still waiting for answers to my posts when you attacked me for disagreeing with your books, oops i mean special insights, you’ve gained via mystic betty…oh i forgot you decided i hated you so you wouldn’t have to…
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bob
‘Humanist. Does not bode well atm
How do you apply humanist approach when standing next to parents in mortuary looking at the remains of their child after these criminals have had their ” fun ” with their offspring’.
ouch!
you’re really out of order saying that….now stop it…you have no idea what CSA victims have really suffered….only what you have read….you recently told me that i hadn’t suffered coz i didn’t die…using those that have died to further your cause to try make your views untouchable does you no credit…
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what it all proves to me is that more recovered victims of CSA/CA need to speak out!
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OBD, yes, yes, yes more do need to speak out, if only to quell the parasitic, emotional vampirism from the bobchewies/MerryTillers of this world.
The biggest issue & stumbling block to this, is that nearly all modes of orthodox therapy for trauma revolve around shutting the box, painting the box in pretty colours, pretending that not only unicorns exist, but they fart butterflies and piss rainbows – which not only adds to the trauma, but ensures it persists, allowing ill informed twats to decide all that should be thought by, and done to the survivor.
Every aspect of how survivors are treated within the CJS causes more trauma. Despite sheeple like bobchewie/MerryTiller et al and their beliefs/perversions, the reality is that the system causes more trauma to the abusers too, and without true and meaningful therapy, the unhealed individual is released in a more dangerous state than before. I’d say every aspect of common psychotherapeutic practice has a huge hand in persisting the harms as well.
The “cure” as we are sold it by orthodox practice is nothing of the sort, it just ensures that the system has more customers.
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lucy
absolutely….i felt compelled to finally speak out against this raven ignorance, we face daily, many feel this is futile, and i’m beginning to join them…you can’t be healed nor cured….there are many who are cured but languishing in prison coz few believe it….behaviourism is shite…social rules, grace and etiquette crap need to get past all of that 1st…
‘they’re born evil’, (this logic quickly falls apart when examined), who’s evil those that punish or those who are punished…to be punished for the way one is born is surely evil…but then see, oh, they’re not born that way and quickly ‘forget’ what they’ve seen …so unwittingly they contradict themselves…they don’t like it when those contradictions are brought so close together they cannot ignore them…so they try to keep a barrier between them…and throw slurs, outright accusations @ one…ie dr d rowe beyond fear, 2 places @ once…it’s a self esteem issue not willing to admit they’ve been duped…losing face etc get over it, but by facing one’s demons, the actual abuse,sq on, not the abusers, unless one enjoys talking/shouting @/to brick walls that is, one can….
the reasons victims don’t speak out, are seen on this site, plus masses of other everyday reasons…j’accused…of being an abuser if one departs from an unwritten consensus, that cannot be challenged…
victims aren’t meant to heal but be constantly needy of others…J’SUIS CSA/CA VICTIM…many looking in with their opinions of what it must be like never imagining a recovery….and the harsh shocking words of truth we speak…when we hear, ‘why wasn’t it good for you’, never imagining in a recovery where us ungrateful brats say fuck you, get lost, when we do find recovery..we’re supposed to grateful to those who for many years blocked our healing, as if, nothing has basically changed and our culture is good after all…being healed is not about fitting or being grateful to a toxic culture…were meant to be in 2 places @ once…well it helped shape thoughts and i hope some got through…this whole looking in @, lark gets me..like always looking at something else away from the root causes, that we know are…in a state of encouraged denial…look @ how bob works ‘come on say it, like you mean it..’christ, that doesn’t sound very convincing’ ‘out with it’…you’ll have seen the new stuff on his web site i take it?
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Dead right. The more victims who will speak out as witnesses the more paedos that will be put behind bars and on the register so they can’t rape any more kids.
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pat testing of visual cortex required…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_geniculate_nucleus
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You mean the paedos should have compulsory mental health treatment instead of going to prison?
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Aye OBD, every word you have typed about this should be respected for it’s absolute truth.
We get censored at every turn when this issue comes up. However offensive or crass the accusations we endure, our response will be the one to be declined , muted or shouted over.
The therapy/MH industry, all of it, is a huge parasite and comprised of so many people who should not be allowed anywhere near the traumatised. I have big respect for Rowe and Masson in their descriptions of the damage therapists do to people. You describe their cowardly, sniping ways very well
The gross stupidity to me is, that whilst the medieval punishment mongers can happily accuse us of being paedophiles or CA/CSA enablers to their hearts content, unhindered by intelligence or moderation, the minute anyone with actual experience pipes up, or points to the truth, they are censored, by the shouts of the baying, “injured” mob or those who are responsible for whatever medium or space we are using.
As you allude, we are expected to be submissive and grateful. What a grotesque, cruel joke!
The roaring, slavering lynch mob not only shouts loudly, but they offer the easy way “out” of remaining ill informed, bigoted and, in society’s view, gaining acceptance of the mob by having the “correct” opinion.
The way of the lynch mob refuses to allow individual experience or any expression of disagreement. It’s as oppressive as the effects of living under this hideously cruel government. Both the toffs and the DM sheeple, want us grateful and most of all compliant at all times, however horrific our experiences.
These naysayers, those who protect their right to be outraged at our experience unwittingly fuel more CA and CSA.
Yep bobchewie/Merry/Pat testing/Bridge whoever they are, they are enabling and encouraging more human beings to be abused, more lives to be tyrannised and wrecked, because they are too gutless to even peep at reality, yet alone tackle the system to create something more effective at both preventing abuse and healing ALL of those affected by it.
I’ve read the new stuff, it’s very interesting. If only those without a clue and those with legislative and commissioning power would read it too.
Ever onwards OBD! 🙂
PS: For anyone who thinks that the MH industry is the answer for trauma, here’s an example of what a dangerous unregulated, bucket of bombs, the psychotherapy business is:-
Similar examples and worse are rife within the “regulated” NHS MH services too.
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So do you mean compulsory mental health/healing treatment for child abusers?
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lucy
yep, trigger and freeze ‘therapy’..’capping’ trauma, blocking expression of volcano…
aka behaviourism; learn to cope, it’s all in the past’ ‘worse things happen’ oh you never said that!’ formember it…forget it and remember you have!!!, have courage etc etc etc it’s just blaming the victim as if their minds are crap….’think first!?’ stepping out of, suspending reality, to make things ‘work’…
ignore the brick that has fallen on your foot and it won’t hurt…and/or hit it so often that one no longer feels a thing….repetition of their childhood traumas…or you need to cope as i have…many don’t see emotional blood, pouring from emotional injuries…but LMF…
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You complain that nobody understands but won’t explain when somebody asks.
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OBD, isn’t it odd? are we speaking in Venusian do you think?
We explain until we are blue in the face, we provide references, links, citations, again and again. We can put it in words of one syllable, mime it, make films about it, draw it, finger paint it, make sculptures or pictures in pasta to stick on the fridge door, but whatever medium or language we use….
…they just don’t want to fúcking learn or know the reality about childhood sexual abuse, or any other form of abuse, because it means they have to look at themselves and acknowledge their historical, individual complicity.
We get censored/moderated when we retaliate against offensive, crass fantasies mooted by trolls to shoot down logic and humaneness.
Yet the trolls can freely imply we are abusers, with impunity.
Funny old world innit 😉
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I’m not asking about methods of therapy, I’m asking about how child abusers can be identified and then how victims and the public can be sure they will undergo therapy. What do you think?
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You seem to be afraid of actual discussion. That’s up to you. I did not imply that you are child abusers. However, what you appear to be proposing would, de facto, protect child abusers and not their victims.
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LOL @ pat. Now pat, I’m going to allow YOU to experience fear. How? I’m not going to respond to another word you type.
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Suggesting that your proposals would protect child abusers and not their victims was obviously no surprise to you. Apparently it’s also something you aggressively want to avoid discussing. Why?
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