UPDATE: Boffey is now praising Michael Gove as a ‘big beast’ in the pages of the Guardian. Are there no limits?
(not satire – it’s the Guardian!)
The Observer has a naughty little article today claiming there are “at least” twenty shadow ministers calling for Ed Miliband to stand down.
I say naughty, because the article fails to name even one shadow minister.
And considering there are only about 24 shadow ministers in the entire shadow cabinet, “at least” 20 would have to be just about all of them. Including Ed Miliband himself.
In fact, the whole article is so ridiculous in its anti-Labour spin and propaganda, it’s exactly the kind of thing you’d expect to see in the Daily Mail.
Which is not very surprising considering the journalist who wrote the Observer piece – Daniel Boffey – used to write exactly the same kind of political smear articles for the Mail on Sunday:
Miliband and his £18m holiday villa
Fury over Gordon Brown’s ‘cynical’ letter to murder victim’s local paper
Jacqui Smith’s cleaner hasn’t had a pay rise for five years
Labour’s army of spin, G20 summit is ‘choreographed’ by private firm
We reveal explosive report Ed Balls refused to make public
So why is the Lib Dem Guardian/Observer employing a hack who has a history of writing anti-Labour articles for the Tory Mail?
Another example of the Lib Dem /Tory coalition in action perhaps?
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PS. It seems to have escaped some people that my final line was written in Ironic Bold font. But just to clarify – no – I don’t believe there’s an open conspiracy between the Mail and the Guardian to discredit Ed Miliband. However, I do believe in shoddy journalism to make cheap partisan political points. And I do believe hacks of a feather like to scratch each other’s backs. But I have genuinely no idea whatsoever why the Guardian would want to employ a right-wing former Mail hack …..
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Please feel free to comment. And share. Thanks:
beastrabban said:
Reblogged this on Beastrabban’s Weblog.
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jaynel62 said:
Posted in the Comments section of the article !
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Andy Birss (@1957AJB) said:
Boffey is beneath contempt for retweeting a photo captioned ‘David Cameron taking a shit in the poppies’ with a picture of the PM at the Tower of London memorial. Whatever my personal feelings for David Cameron this shows that Boffey is both infantile and without any respect for the living or the dead.
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sdbast said:
Reblogged this on sdbast.
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keith sellick (@littlekeithy) said:
Boffey’s article says:
“The ringleaders of the prospective coup have collected 20 names of frontbench colleagues – about one-fifth of shadow ministers –”
There are only 32 shadow cabinet members (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_%28United_Kingdom%29).
Which makes me think that the story is either written by an idiot, a possibility, or is a smear with no regard to the facts.
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essex police said:
move along theres nothing to see here.
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FinkFurst said:
I completely agree with Keith’s last sentence. This blogpost has either been written by an ignoramus who can’t count and who doesn’t even understand what “shadow minister” means… or it’s a deliberate political smear.
He says there are “about 24 shadow ministers in the entire shadow cabinet”. Firstly, there are currently 32 in the shadow cabinet, not 24. Secondly. there are FAR more shadow ministers than just those in the shadow cabinet. That number is currently 110.
(Source – http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/government-and-opposition1/opposition-holding/ To see the full list of shadow ministers just select “Shadow Ministers A-Z” near the top of the page. Don’t worry, it’s not too difficult, even for an ignoramus.)
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FinkFurst said:
P.S. I also believe in shoddy journalism to make cheap partisan political points!
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Steve Bennett said:
You’re wrong and looking in the wrong place, a shadow minister even a senior one and a member of the shadow cabinet isnt the same thing at all.
There are 27 shadow cabinet members including Ed and another 5 senior Labour MPS who are not in the shadow cabinet but attend its meetings…
http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/government-and-opposition1/opposition-holding/
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FinkFurst said:
Steve – Are you saying I’m wrong, or that Tom Pride is wrong?
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John D Turner said:
Reblogged this on John D Turner.
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Aletheia said:
I equate the word “about” with “approximately”. Tom didn’t say precisely 24 he said, “about”.
So yes, you are wrong and wasting comment space with this vacuous discord on finite details missing the point entirely about the content/context of the post. How very Tory.
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FinkFurst said:
Tom, Steve, Aletheia, Keith – Your ability to count can’t be THAT bad, so obviously you’ve completely missed the point. Apparently you are all a bit slow on the uptake, so I’ll try to explain it very simply for you……
The number of Shadow Ministers is more than 100 (currently 110 – see full list below). It’s not 27 or 32, that’s just the Shadow Cabinet, and it certainly isn’t 24. It’s therefore possible (or likely) that at least 20 of the 100+ Shadow Ministers want Miliband to stand down. Tom’s blogpost above is completely wrong, and I think Tom should correct this shoddy journalism/cheap partisan political point.
The Rt Hon. the Lord Adonis (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Treasury)
Rt Hon Douglas Alexander MP (Lab) Shadow Foreign Secretary
Jonathan Ashworth MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Cabinet Office)
The Lord Bach (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)
Rt Hon Ed Balls MP (Lab) Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
Gordon Banks MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Scotland)
The Lord Beecham (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Communities and Local Government)
Rt Hon Hilary Benn MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government
Luciana Berger MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Public Health)
Roberta Blackman-Woods MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Communities and Local Government)
The Rt Hon. the Lord Bradley (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Health)
Kevin Brennan MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Education)
Lyn Brown MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Communities and Local Government)
Mr Russell Brown MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Scotland)
Chris Bryant MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Work and Pensions)
Richard Burden MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Transport)
Rt Hon Andy Burnham MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Health
Rt Hon Liam Byrne MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Business, Innovation and Skills)
Jenny Chapman MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Justice)
Vernon Coaker MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Defence
The Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (International Development)
Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP (Lab) Shadow Home Secretary
Mary Creagh MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for International Development
Stella Creasy MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Business, Innovation and Skills)
Margaret Curran MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland
The Lord Davidson of Glen Clova (Lab) Shadow Advocate-General for Scotland
The Rt Hon. the Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Transport)
Thomas Docherty MP (Lab) Shadow Deputy Leader of the House of Commons
Gemma Doyle MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Defence)
Jack Dromey MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
Michael Dugher MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Transport
Ms Angela Eagle MP (Lab) Shadow Leader of the House of Commons
Maria Eagle MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Clive Efford MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Culture, Media and Sport)
Julie Elliott MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Energy and Climate Change)
The Rt Hon. the Lord Falconer of Thoroton (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Constitutional and Deputy Priministerial Issues) (Justice)
Rt Hon Caroline Flint MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change
Yvonne Fovargue MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Defence)
Barry Gardiner MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)
Helen Goodman MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Culture, Media and Sport)
Tom Greatrex MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Energy)
Kate Green MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Work and Pensions)
Lilian Greenwood MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Transport)
Nia Griffith MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Wales)
Andrew Gwynne MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Health)
Rt Hon David Hanson MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
Rt Hon Harriet Harman QC MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (also Shadow Deputy Prime Minister)
The Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills)
The Rt Hon. the Baroness Hughes of Stretford (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Education)
The Rt Hon. the Lord Hunt of Kings Heath OBE (Lab) Shadow Deputy Leader of the House of Lords
Tristram Hunt MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Education
Huw Irranca-Davies MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)
Cathy Jamieson MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Treasury)
Dan Jarvis MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Justice)
Diana Johnson MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
The Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Culture, Media and Sport)
Helen Jones MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
Mr Kevan Jones MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Defence)
Liz Kendall MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Health) (Care and Older People)
Rt Hon Sadiq Khan MP (Lab) Shadow Lord Chancellor and Shadow Secretary of State for Justice (also Shadow Minister for London)
The Rt Hon. the Lord Knight of Weymouth (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)
Chris Leslie MP (Lab) Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
Mr Ivan Lewis MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland
The Lord Liddle (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills)
Ian Lucas MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)
Shabana Mahmood MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Treasury)
Mr Gordon Marsden MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Transport)
The Rt Hon. the Lord McAvoy (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Northern Ireland)
Steve McCabe MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Education)
Kerry McCarthy MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)
Gregg McClymont MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Work and Pensions)
Alison McGovern MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Education)
The Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Communities and Local Government)
Catherine McKinnell MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Treasury)
The Baroness Morgan of Ely (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Wales)
Ian Murray MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Business, Innovation and Skills)
Lisa Nandy MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Cabinet Office)
Chi Onwurah MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Cabinet Office)
Toby Perkins MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Business, Innovation and Skills)
Stephen Pound MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Northern Ireland)
Lucy Powell MP (Lab) Shadow Minister for the Cabinet Office
Mr Jamie Reed MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Health)
Mr Steve Reed MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
Rachel Reeves MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions
Emma Reynolds MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Communities and Local Government) (Housing)
Jonathan Reynolds MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Energy and Climate Change)
The Lord Rosser (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Defence)
The Rt Hon. the Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab) Shadow Leader of the House of Lords
Anas Sarwar MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (International Development)
Andy Sawford MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Communities and Local Government)
Alison Seabeck MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Defence)
The Baroness Sherlock OBE (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Work and Pensions)
Gavin Shuker MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (International Development)
Andy Slaughter MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Justice)
The Rt Hon. the Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Home Affairs)
Angela Smith MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)
Owen Smith MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Wales
Rt Hon John Spellar (Lab) Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)
The Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills)
Mr Gareth Thomas MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)
Emily Thornberry MP (Lab) Shadow Attorney General
Rt Hon Stephen Timms MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Work and Pensions)
Jon Trickett MP (Lab) Shadow Minister without Portfolio and Deputy Party Chair
The Lord Triesman (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)
Stephen Twigg MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Political and Constitutional Reform) (Justice)
Mr Chuka Umunna MP (Lab) Shadow Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills
The Lord Wood of Anfield (Lab) Shadow Minister without Portfolio (Cabinet Office)
The Baroness Worthington (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Energy and Climate Change)
Mr Iain Wright MP (Lab) Shadow Minister (Business, Innovation and Skills)
The Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab) Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills)
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Loony Lefty said:
Oh dear Tom. Your blogpost seems to have triggered a rather unfortunate outbreak of pedantry. Bit of a bummer for those of us who’d have liked to have read intelligent discussion of the actual issues.
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FinkFurst said:
Loony – The actual issue is that at least 20 Shadow Ministers probably did say that Miliband should stand down, and Tom’s blogpost is based on his failure to understand the structure of our Parliament, which is rather sad for a political commentator. That’s substance, not pedantry.
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Tom Pride said:
FinkFurst – in your usual mad obsessive attempts to discredit me (which have been going on for the best part of 2 years now) you’ve completely missed what the blogpost is really about.
Which is actually nothing to do with a (not very interesting) discussion about the number of shadow ministers in the cabinet.
I’ll give you a clue. It’s in the title:
Why is the Observer employing a Mail journalist to smear Ed Miliband?
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FinkFurst said:
Tom – No it’s YOU who’s missing the point. Boffey DIDN’T smear Ed Miliband, he wrote what appears to be a very credible story.
I’m glad that you apparently now realise that it’s nothing to do with the number of shadow ministers in the Cabinet, because Boffey was obviously talking about all Shadow Ministers, not just the Shadow Cabinet.
Either you were deliberately trying to mislead your readers in an effort to discredit this Observer story in their eyes, or you didn’t understand that there are far more Shadow Ministers than just those in the Shadow Cabinet. I suspect it was the latter.
I don’t care who a journalist (or a blogger) used to work for, as long as they try their best to get things right and leave their readers better informed than before, and try to make corrections if they get things wrong. I’m not trying to discredit you. I give both praise and criticism if I see that they are deserved.
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FinkFurst said:
Tom – Perhaps I should also add that if your motive (as a staunch Labour supporter) was to do your bit to try to prevent a Labour meltdown under Miliband, then that’s a laudable thing to do. However, misleading people in an effort do so will always eventually backfire.
If you want my opinion (and I doubt that you do!) I think that if Labour wants a chance in the next election then it needs a new and credible leader… and fast!
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FinkFurst said:
I apologised for saying that you’re paranoid. Would you like to apologise now…?
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overburdenddonkey said:
a rhetorical note…i’m sure 20% of camerons ministers don’t like him either, but no one writes about that, do they!…but then they are united by money and self interests the only difference between them and labour, is that labour still dress mostly like socialists and pretend not to be united by money, and self interest’s, when in fact they are …
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FinkFurst said:
True OBD. I’m hoping that Labour (in both England and Scotland) can find a leader who cares more about principles and fairness than about spin and power…… but I’m not holding my breath.
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Ashe said:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/feature-archive/510105/Nats-secret-advisers-accused-of-dirty-tricks-across-Tasman
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FinkFurst said:
Tom – Maybe you missed my reply. I was hoping that you would apologise for calling me “mad”. Not just for me, but more for the countless people who are struggling with their mental health problems.
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Tom Pride said:
Finkfurst – I’m going to go against my better judgement and – because you are so obviously fascinated in me and my motives for blogging – give you a full and (final) answer to your accusations.
To be honest though, I feel a bit like a professor of physics having to explain to a 5 year old the basics of quantum mechanics. Because in general your arguments are so shallow I feel you will have great difficulty understanding something that goes beyond petty considerations of partisan politics and pointless point scoring. If that sounds patronising, I assure you it’s meant to be.
But here goes anyway.
In the UK , there has always been an all-encompassing news narrative about what is happening around us, created by a tiny group of people who have jealously guarded the production and means of distribution of information since time immemorial probably. This group includes mainly journalists, but also politicians, business people, the rich and famous etc
The narrative the public was served up on a daily basis was on the whole false – and it didn’t just include politics. It controlled what we knew about food, education, health, money, business – even sex and relationships. This narrative of course favoured the people it wanted to favour – the establishment, or in other words the people who retain the power and the wealth. The narrative could cut across party boundaries if it felt it needed to. For example, in the run up to the Iraq war under New Labour, the narrative was solidly in favour of war. Under Thatcher it was solidly in favour of privatisation (as a random example). At the moment the narrative is mostly about the demonisation of immigrants and welfare claimants. But there are other narratives too, including the demonisation of opposition party leaders who are seen as too radical and a threat to the establishment’s interests. You seem to have a hatred of Labour, but like it or not, this at the moment includes Ed Miliband, and also of course Alex Salmond. If the Greens, for example, start getting higher in the polls, expect bad photographs of Natalie Bennett eating bacon sandwiches in the mainstream press too.
For decades, I got used to the lies and spin and felt there was nothing mere mortals like you and me could ever do about it. I’d sigh and not even bother to argue with the guy down the pub who spouted the Daily Mail/government lies as though they were true. I just couldn’t be bothered to try to fight something which was all-powerful and all-pervading.
Then – only about a decade ago – came the rise of social media. Here – for the first time- was the means for an alternative narrative to be created. A means of distributing information which was even more powerful than the media barons and establishment hacks and official news spinners who had so strongly controlled the news for so long. I watched with hope as it grew more and more powerful, realising slowly this was a really important – and hopefully irreversible change in the way news narratives are formed. At the time of the Iraq war there was social media – but it wasn’t as powerful as it is today. And the news barons are so much weaker today than they were even just a few years ago. For example, one of the first people Blair spoke to to OK the decision to invade Iraq was Rupert Murdoch. I doubt that would be the case today.
So imagine my disappointment – no horror – when just after the coalition was formed I slowly realised social media too was being hijacked by the very people it was supposed to replace. The most read blogger, for example, is Guido Fawkes – a Tory Party supporter who is in the pay of Murdoch. While the NHS was being dismantled in front of our very eyes, Guido was busy attacking “one-eyed” Gordon Brown who was no longer even the PM:
And he was doing that because Guido was – and is still – following the establishment’s false narrative – to hide what the coalition was really doing and pretend we were being ruled by a coalition of moderate politicians who were saving us from the people who had ’caused’ the recession (ie Gordon Brown, not the banks) – in order to fulfil the establishment’s agenda of privatisation and slashing the welfare state.
In my eyes this was nothing less than than an attempt to take over the reins of social media by the establishment. And it was working. 400 years ago, Guy Fawkes tried to blow up the establishment. The modern day one drinks pimms at expensive Tory Party fundraisers with it.
That’s when I started to blog. Blogging for me is a way to present an alternative narrative to people than the one presented by the establishment – an alternative narrative controlled by people outside the establishment and not controlled by journalists or by big business or political party spinners.
Now – bearing in mind everything I’ve just written – take the blog post above. What do you think was the main point of the article?
Do you think it’s simply because I’m a “staunch Labour supporter”? Am I writing this blog because I’m interested in blindly supporting Ed Miliband? Or maybe you think I bother doing it because I have an irrational and blind hatred for Daily Mail journalists?
No. This is not about seeing the world through a narrow prism of party political spin – as you do. This is about the bigger picture. It’s about how we are being fed a false narrative. And the false narrative in this case happens to be about (a non-existent) rebellion against Ed Milband. By revealing that the same hack has worked for both the Guardian and the Mail, I am lifting the lid a little bit on how that false narrative works and how we are all taken in by it. We are supposed to have alternative narratives in newspapers like the Guardian. The blogpost above hopefully shows how that narrative is in itself a false narrative – at least partly.
So as you can see, your pointless point scoring about the number of shadow ministers spectacularly misses the whole point of what I wrote.
(Most of the thousands of people who read this blog, I must point out, unlike you – didn’t miss the point of it.)
And the reason why I rarely moderate comments – even ones that are critical of me – is that the discussion which ensues from my attempt to present an alternative to false narratives is just as crucial to the defeating of those false narratives as the actual blog posts themselves. Without the blogposts – the discussion wouldn’t even exist.
However, the discussion should be about the narratives, how true or false they are – and not about me. That’s also why I choose to be anonymous. I’m just an unimportant pleb – not a member of the establishment in any way – and proud of it.
Now what’s the best way to tackle the problem of false narratives? Is it by being unbiased and balanced like good journalists are supposed to be and hoping that by example Murdoch and Rothermere and party spin doctors will all miraculously go: “ooh look, that fantastic blogger Tom Pride is sooo objective, he’s an example to all of us, let’s all do likewise”?
I really hope you are not that naive.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the best way to tackle the establishment’s false narratives is to reveal their methods and try to present the alternative narrative. Social media is an ideal place to do that. But it’s a war. Narratives – false and true – vie for space and attention on social media and the true narrative doesn’t always win.
So that’s why I am not trying to be unbiased here. I am not a journalist. I am not objective. Objectivity will not defeat false narratives. Only alternative soundbites will defeat the establishment soundbites. The mainstream press is extremely proficient at dressing up their false narratives in entertaining ways. I try to do something similar. And just like the mainstream media, I am extremely biased. But I am biased against the false narratives which are all around us. And that’s why I try to present the alternatives narratives in an entertaining way.
So – don’t expect me to be unbiased or even handed. I’m not.
This blog is all about presenting an alternative narrative to the mainstream – and if you prefer to stick to pointless partisan point scoring – you don’t have to read it. You can get as many stories about how bad Ed Miliband is at eating bacon sandwiches, or about welfare claimants, or about immigrants ‘flooding’ the country just by switching on your TV or opening a mainstream newspaper. But don’t expect that kind of establishment narrative on this blog. And if you want to assign agendas to me – try aiming a little bit higher in future.
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FinkFurst said:
That’s very interesting. I appreciate you taking the time to explain, and there is much there that I agree with. However, you have what I would contend are some misconceptions, both about me (which I’m not bothered about) and some larger ones which I would like to dispute with you sometime.
Just for now, let’s stick to the point of this thread. Do you think it’s possible, or maybe even likely, that at least 20 out of 110 Shadow Ministers DO think and DID say that Ed Miliband is a liability and should stand down?
[OK – you are thick. I’ve just written a long and (I think) eloquent argument about how the media creates false narratives and your reply is to invite me to have a discussion about the very false narrative I’m trying to illustrate.] – TOM
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FinkFurst said:
P.S. It would also be nice if you would apologise for calling me “mad”.
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FinkFurst said:
I think perhaps we can distill the fundamental difference down to your statement “Objectivity will not defeat false narratives”. I think this is where we part philosophical and practical company. Would you like to have a serious and public discussion about that? I’m up for it if you are…
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FinkFurst said:
I suspect that you’re not going to reply, so I’ll leave you with a question – Is your argument below just another example of a false narrative which you claim to despise? If so, do you think I should counter it with yet another false narrative from yet another biased viewpoint, or, as I have done and you have ignored, with an objective argument about the actual number of Shadow Ministers?
…considering there are only about 24 shadow ministers in the entire shadow cabinet, “at least” 20 would have to be just about all of them.
I think you reject objectivity because you, just like the establishment you wish to oppose, are afraid of it…… I am not.
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FinkFurst said:
The narrative I’m asking you to discuss is YOURS! I’m contending that countering one false narrative with another false narrative doesn’t help.
It’s SO simple. Is it 20 out of 24, or 20 out of 110? The first is YOUR argument, the second is reality!
…and eloquence and truth are NOT the same!
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FinkFurst said:
I’ll try again – Do you think it’s possible, or maybe even likely, that at least 20 out of 110 Shadow Ministers DO think and DID say that Ed Miliband should stand down? I realise that you say it’s a false narrative, but WHY you claim it’s false is the interesting question. Or are you saying that it’s a possible but unsubstantiated narrative rather than a false one? If so I would agree.
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Tom Pride said:
No – you are obviously not intelligent enough to understand – as a lot of journalists and party activists like you are. The whole narrative of ministers attacking Miliband is false. You are blindly doing what the mainstream press wants you to do – which is to narrow discussion to (false) subjects which fit its own agenda. It’s exactly the same narrative of immigrants and so-called ‘benefits scroungers’. To even discuss it is to give the narrative life. It must be dismissed and other real narratives discussed.
Now I’ve said enough to you about this. I’m getting seriously bored of your deliberate attempts to constantly attack me. It’s boring. Now stop avoiding the real (and much more interesting question here: Why is the Observer employing a Mail journalist to smear Ed Miliband?
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FinkFurst said:
Well, if you think to even discuss it is to give it life then I fail to see why you wrote a blogpost in which you tried to dispute its veracity. OK, I’ll leave it there. So to the question which you think is more interesting. Is the question you’re actually asking why the Observer/Guardian decided to employ an ex-Mail journalist in March 2011? He hasn’t written for the Mail since then. I don’t know, maybe because both they and he thought he should write for a more quality paper?
I’m not a journalist, I’m a scientist. And I’m currently undecided whether to vote SNP or Labour at the next election, in part because the Labour candidate in my constituency has not yet been named. That’s rather an odd thing for a party activist to say, isn’t it?
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FinkFurst said:
Or you could ask the question in a different way:
Why did the Observer/Guardian decide to employ one of their own journalists who’s been employed by them (and not by the Mail) for more than 3 years? Hmmmmm, that’s a difficult one……
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jaypot2012 said:
Reblogged this on Jay's Journal and commented:
I see what Tom is saying here and do see the alternatives that can and should be written…
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