(not satire – it’s the UKIP!)
Here’s a recent email exchange between a local resident of Weymouth in Dorset Jason West and his local UKIP representative.
It’s pretty much self-explanatory:
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Related article by Tom Pride:
UKIP deputy leader calls for end of NHS
UKIP donor: ban trousers on women because “skirts give erections”!
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Please feel free to comment. And please share. Thank you.
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Pride's Purge 
Reblogged this on sdbast.
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Reblogged this on My Blog.
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Reblogged this on Beastrabban’s Weblog.
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But why should we give EU freeloaders from Albania and Romania free council houses, free food from the local food bank and free golf lessons, all paid for by the hared working taxpayers of the UK?
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Reblogged this on | truthaholics.
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wonderful, my area has a decline of people and i love to put that to ukipers…usually the last thing said……kudos 🙂
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Jason West is my new hero!
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Hi David, just to pick you up on a few things.
Albania isn’t a member of the EU.
You mention your local food bank, that’s hardly a British Institution to be proud of is it?
Free council houses? I believe councils charge rent, there are no ‘free’ council houses, and since Farage and Cameron’s heroine, Margaret Thacher, dismantled the social housing programme in the UK, there aren’t too many of these left that aren’t in the hands of private landlords. (still not ‘free’, rent is charged)
Free golf lessons? Really?
Hard Working Taxpayers – The hardest working people are generally in receipt of in-work benefits, as people earn more money, they are less hard-working (see any number of discussions around wage inequality), so, your hard working taxpayers are also, by your argument, EU freeloaders (yes, UK folk are also EU folk)
This simplistic viewpoint is the viewpoint of UKIP and Conservatives, it’s lazy, inaccurate and divisive.
À la prochaine… 🙂
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There is a lot of talk about foreigners being given council housing in the UK but it seems to me now the scope of being a freeloader has now widened to food banks (you have to follow a set criteria in order to be eligible for food packages from food banks) and now golf lessons?! Can you point us in the right direction for statistical proof and analysis on how the free golf lessons system is being overwhelmed by the mythical “flood” “influx” and in your language “freeloading” of those evil Romanians and Bulgarians?
Of course, for the purposes of a fair, frank, honest and mature debate, could we not start with Nigel Farage and the millions he has claimed as an EU citizen which is all paid for by “hared working taxpayers of the UK?”
PS: Please proof read your comments before posting. Thankyou
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Just to enlighten a few posts here, immigrants are moved up the housing ladder quicker due to a policy of want over need, you may want a council house, but immigrants need a property more than you, so they have priority over local people. The fact is immigrants take out more from the treasury than they have paid in . this is covered by government borrowing . That’s why we are broke, and living beyond our means. Most people using food banks are working, but after paying all their bills there is no money left for food. The system needs to change, Why do you think immigrants come here??
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Reblogged this on richbroomhall1.
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<>
Really? University College London did an academic study that showed that people from the ‘A8 countries’ (the East European ones all the fuss is about) are 60% LESS likely to get state benefits or tax credits or social housing than the rest of us and that they are actually paying a lot more into our taxation system than they are taking out (e.g. in 2008/9 they paid in an amazing 37% more). But the lies get repeated so often in the newspapers (owned by multi-millionaire tax-dodging tax exiles who don’t even live in this country and in Murdoch’s case isn’t even British anyway) that they get taken for the truth.
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Reblogged this on stewilko's Blog.
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Eh Carl we are broke because of the banks dohh!!
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I live for letters like this…a beautiful, eloquent and well researched letter! Brilliant. I salute you. All I did was recycle their leaflet and send them a picture of it in the bin. If it happens again I’m going to be more creative!
PS. If there are free golf lessons being offered where are they? As I’m born and bred here (unlike two aunties and countless friends) surely I should have gained access to free golf by now?
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If you actually read it says he’s from Dorset but his with is Danish..
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Reblogged this on Vox Political.
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There is a clear intention to demonise UKIP. I don’t support UKIP, but the fact Jason West ignores that the words “flocking into” are in reference to the whole of the UK, and then he gives data just for his area makes his intention clear.
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Reblogged this on amnesiaclinic and commented:
People don’t like the EU but voting for UKIP isn’t the answer. Well worth reading and also some well-researched comments.
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ian
the ukip rep makes a clear ref to localism, at the start of the conversation…ie the residents local area, and how immergrants, are taking away local facilitates from local families…the ukip rep then makes the disingenuous switch from local area to national area…the respondent to the ukip propaganda, can/should only reference their own local environment, as the ukip rep initially stated that their policies and “flocking in”, affected their local area…ie solve problems caused by EU residents “flocking into” local area…an elected rep should primarily represent and fully understand local interests/issues….the respondent clearly states that the problems in their local area do not reflect those that ukip are claiming them to be…the ukip rep led the respondent in one direction and did switch directions from local issues to unknowable (for him) national issues, the respondent did not notice this, as i presume he assumed honesty in conversation ie that the rep was still referencing localism..the respondent was misled, i’m sure he won’t be misled again! the respondent to ukip, perhaps should have said “hang on a minute we are talking local issues here,” but he didn’t…but he did clearly prove that EU residents are not flocking into their local area, as the ukip rep initially implied they were…ukip are standing on the stop lawful movement of EU residents into the uk and local areas, ukip are not standing to elect a president, but a local rep…ukip are trying to claim a national interests solution agenda, that affects all areas of the uk which they clearly do not…ukip want a mono-cultural nationalist structure, i for one do not…
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Pingback: Read this email exchange in which a local resident takes apart UKIP | Liam's Random Ramblings
Excellent to read this exchange, really illustrates how ideology rather than facts lie behind the ukip agenda. Also fun to read the ineffective attempts to dodge the issue of his partner, whose status in ukip’s eyes was never truly answered.
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This is no obligation under and EU law to provide free welfare and benefits to EU migrants that do not work. No other EU country provides this. This is a self inflicted problem created by incompetent successive UK governments.
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“Immigrants”, as you call them, are not allowed on any council housing list. You’re possibly confusing “immigrant” with asylum seeker, I believe, but even they’ve been removed from applying by the Tories so who do you actually mean?
The fact is, we have a shortage of council housing and that is down to the Ukip heroine, Thatcher, who outlawed council’s from using Right-to-Buy money to build new housing stock and replacing those sold..
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auster
https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/where-you-can-claim-benefits
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I so agree with you – that is the biggest problem of all, the governments!
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Reblogged this on Jay's Journal and commented:
See how you feel after reading the post and comments…
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I would never, ever vote Ukip – therefore I would never speak to one of their “representatives”. That’s as simple as it gets for me 😀
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“Just to enlighten a few posts here, immigrants are moved up the housing ladder quicker due to a policy of want over need, you may want a council house, but immigrants need a property more than you, so they have priority over local people.”
So, just to be clear: you are saying that it is unfair for the people in the most need of a council house to receive one ahead of those who are not in need? You think that people who are less in need of council houses should take priority.
“The fact is immigrants take out more from the treasury than they have paid in . this is covered by government borrowing .”
I don’t understand what you mean here. Government borrowing over the past five years has been extensive, but I see no logical reason to link it to immigration. It is simply the case that the government has been making “cuts” to services that it cannot legally make, which costs more in the long term because people – quite rightly – take them to court.
“That’s why we are broke, and living beyond our means. Most people using food banks are working, but after paying all their bills there is no money left for food. The system needs to change, Why do you think immigrants come here??””
Um, I know that’s a rhetorical question, and while it’s tempting to go into great detail of all the reasons that immigrants might want to come to Britain, I will address it in the spirit it is intended.
The answer is: obviously not to claim benefits, are you fucking stupid?
Let’s talk about what immigration involves. A person has to decide to leave a country that they may have lived in their whole life. They then spend potentially a lot of money traveling to another country, where nobody knows them, where the language is relatively alien to them…
And you think they go through all of that JUST because of benefits?
Because I’ll turn the question: would YOU go through all that – moving away from your home to another country where you have no friends and no roots whatsoever – purely because you’d heard (somehow?) that they have a slightly more generous benefits system than we have here?
Of course you wouldn’t, so why do you think anyone else would?
The fact is, people who have the motivation, means and energy required to emigrate from their country to another one aren’t going to be the kind of people who would make a positive choice to sit on the dole. It is the lazy assumption of many – and I have to say, it is mostly retired people rather than workers – that life on the dole is really really attractive, and that if it is even slightly comfortable, no one would look for work at all. Of course, in reality, almost everyone on the dole wants to get work, because they want the money and the freedom that comes with it, and a degree of self-determination in their life.
Migrants from the EU are no different, and to act like they come to this country because our benefits are too generous is frankly insulting to them. It is a big part of the reason that anti-immigration parties frequently (and sometimes very rightly) attract accusations of racial prejudice – because of their willingness to believe that foreigners have completely alien motives from British people.
I am perfectly willing to accept that there is a problem if huge numbers of people are coming to Britain looking for work and not finding it. However, I have yet to hear a peep out of UKIP about job creation. Capping immigration at 50,000 realistically means that about 50,000 people might not be in competition with Britain’s SEVERAL MILLION unemployed, zero hour contract, or part-time workers. That’s not a solution, it’s not even a good start: it’s a token gesture to appeal to xenophobes which will ultimately leave us exactly where we are – with millions of people still unemployed!
What is UKIP’s only other policy on unemployment, according to their 2014 manifesto? …further cuts to unemployment benefit, parroting the shameful and derisive Tory line about how it should not be a “lifestyle for the lazy”. So. Fuck them.
UKIP are a rich-boy’s right-wing con-trick where already-wealthy men use the bigotry and fear of the rubes to get them to vote away their rights and funnel public money up into the hands of the self-proclaimed elite. They demonstrate their contempt for the working class with every phoneme of every word of every faux-straight-talking populist oozing from Farage’s facehole.
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“There is a clear intention to demonise UKIP.”
If there is, it is for using stock language and buzzwords in a response to a letter that expressed very specific and well-articulated concerns. There is a clear assumption by the respondent that the person he is talking to will just go along with these claims about “flocking” migrants, and the general sense that, because someone is “settled” here, they should say “I’m alright Jack” and turn on people who will be in the same position they were only a few years ago.
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And it’s also worth pointing out as an example of the shallowness of UKIP’s localism. The party has no locally actionable policies and has also made little effort to build local-level support – instead spouting off about the direction the country should take and basically relying on a huge surge of support that will give them a majority of Parliamentary seats.
Basically, they appear to have learned nothing from the Greens or George Galloway about securing seats as a minority party.
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This link is for general guidance only. In all other Eu countries (I know because I worked in several of them) you need to be working and contributing before you can claim healthcare and benefits. The UK rules were only changed in the last few weeks, decades after they should have been changed. E.g in France you haven’t got a hope in hell of getting benefits or free medical care until you are paying into the system. There is and never has been any EU obligation to do this. Only the UK applied the rules this way, and the reason they did this was to attract low paid workers to the country when the economy was riding high and there was a job shortage for cheap manual labour.
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Ha! So the reality seems to be old people flocking into Weymouth, bringing their racism and driving out our youngsters…
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After reading you comments here some of you are in complete ignorance of the facts, I’ve worked in the social housing sector for ten years. East Europeans buy citizenship from corrupt officials of eu countries, thus are “entitled ” to benefits. Immigrants can register for schools ,doctors, Dentists, Employment agencies, and housing before they leave their homelands to come here. Your local area should have a “ethnic housing link” to help immigrants who don’t speak English to get a translator to help fill in their benefits forms, then take the forms back to the benefits office, More money is dished out in Benefits , than was used to bail out the banks. The debt will get bigger each year as these immigrants retire and get a pension .Immigrants who have not paid into the system can still take out off the system, it’s a lie that they keep us afloat with their taxes. Since 1901 when state pensions came in, and 1946 with the wealth fare state off . The national debt has rocketed also. just wait till the interest rates go and push up Government borrowing. The politicians are responsible for this mess, but refuse to act. I wonder why?
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‘More money is dished out in Benefits , than was used to bail out the banks’ – and the source for this information is…..
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auster
thanks for the clarification, somewhere in the back of my mind i knew that…yes the uk govt is doing what they always do, blame those least able to defend themselves….used to get the e111 now changed to EHIC, to cover medical stuff….we are being spun a yarn by ukip et al….
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eight
bearing in mind the jsa bill is a mere £2.9bn pa that the uk under-spends vastly on ESC benefits recommendations by 40%…there is 0.7% fraud and more is lost in admin error, £16bn pa goes unclaimed… 53% of the welfare bill goes on pensions and billions will be shaved off of pensions bill by pension age escalator…i would also be interested in seeing carl’s figures…is there even a direct relevance to compare, i think not….huge amounts of our cash being squandered to bail out the banks is the scandal, our welfare bill is what we all expect to pay and in many ways caused/burdened by recklessness on behalf of the banks…and we pay more for welfare by cause of govt, at best, incompetence…
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Fantastic!
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Reblogged this on When Viewed From Below….
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the fear of ‘otherness’ can only lead to evil…
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Carl Mason, you say “some of you are in complete ignorance of the facts”, so help us out here.
1) “East Europeans buy citizenship from corrupt officials of eu countries.” All of them? If not, roughly what percentage? And if this illegal practice is happening, how exactly are you privy to the ‘facts’? I’m very eager for you to educate me on this matter, so please give us your sources.
2)
“More money is dished out in Benefits , than was used to bail out the banks.”
The official cost of the bank bailout has been put at £850bn (see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/163850bn-official-cost-of-the-bank-bailout-1833830.html )
As far as I can see, total spending on benefits is between £100bn and £120bn per year (eg see http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_2003_2016UKb_13c1li111lcn_40t or see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11466178 for a breakdown of these benefit payments).
I reckon 850 is bigger than 110, but what do I know, Carl. Again, help us out here.
3) “Immigrants who have not paid into the system can still take out off the system, it’s a lie that they keep us afloat with their taxes.”
University College London produced an academic paper that looked into this (see http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/DustmannFrattiniHalls2010 ) in which they summarised that
“This paper assesses the fiscal consequences of migration to the UK from the Central and Eastern European countries that joined the European Union in May 2004 (A8 countries). [Such migrants…] are 59% less likely than natives to receive state benefits or tax credits and 57% less likely to live in social housing. Furthermore, even if A8 immigrants had the same demographic characteristics as natives, they would still be 13% less likely to receive benefits and 29% less likely to live in social housing. … In each year since enlargement in 2004, irrespective of the way that the net fiscal contribution is defined, A8 immigrants made a positive contribution to the public finances … This is because they have a higher labour force participation rate, pay proportionately more in indirect taxes and make much less use of benefits and public services.”
Again, please help us all out here. Where have your ‘facts’ come from? It’s really uncomfortable to be told we’re in complete ignorance of the facts but not know where to find them. Clearly, the BBC, the Independent, UCL and the government website don’t know what they’re talking about. Either they don’t or you don’t, Carl, but that couldn’t be the case, could it? I mean, could it? …. Could it?
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Pingback: Read this email exchange in which a local resident takes apart UKIP | Mitherings from Morningside
Hello!
I am a Romanian and I have been in the UK for 4 years.
I was never informed about the free golf lessons. Could you perhaps direct me to where I can get there? I’d really appreciate it.
Please refrain from making generalised allegations. Think before you point.
Although at some point I was out of a job (1 month in 4 years), I have never considered claiming any sort of benefit to aid my living.
It’s just not my thing.
So David, you can rest easily tonight knowing that your tax money are not going towards my golf lessons.
I am still going to steal your job though.
Cheers
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omg FUCKING DO GOODERS coming out of the wood work
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John Cork, Is that supposed to mean something?
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Reblogged this on Soy centrista.
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“A set criteria”? Do you mean “a set of set criteria” or “a set criterion”? “Criteria being plural, “criterion” singular.
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It bores me to distraction how these Ukipers throw out the same, misleading twaddle to justify what they are really about: they are simply ( no pun ) a bunch of thicko, racist morons who don’t even have the wherwithall to cover their tracks.
241 items of heavy freepost and counting……….
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….Billy bulshit.
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Quote:
“More money is dished out in Benefits , than was used to bail out the banks.”
a quick search reveals that the NAO reckon the cost of the banking bailout cost £850 billion.
Now off the top of my head it cost around £650 billion per year to run the country, so you really say that the benefits bill cost over 200 billion more than it costs to run the entire uk?
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You come over here, drinking our women and raping our beer 😉
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We’re living in the 6th richest economy in the world, things might be broken, but as a country we are by no means “Broke”
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I’m curious about the claim that “We are already the most over-crowded country in Europe”. The figures I found say that our population density is lower not only than tiny states such as Monaco and San Marino but also lower than Belgium and the Netherlands, and even lower than Jersey and Guernsey. This can surely only mean that the criteria for being “over-crowded” don’t relate simply to population density. What are they, then?, because I’ve never been able to find any such criteria anywhere. Who decides them, how and why?
…Oh, but I think I know that…
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So glad I live in Scotland where we have a Welfare State and not a wealth fare state
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Why is this awaiting moderation?
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The mythology and sensationalism from the UKIP fools is just amazing. Surely they are all collaborating to write some Hollywood blockbuster or even still a spy novel!
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Why shouldn’t we? We are just lucky to have be born here. They are unlucky to be born where they have. Think how you’d feel if the boot was on the other foot.
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Maybe we can collate all the UKIP opinion posts on here and turn it into a sitcom. Maybe call it Heil Honey I am Home? But then I think that has been done before already
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You do realise this is for UK citizens, not foreign?
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I do like to think the Scots do things much better
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I moved to this country with my mother more than 15 years ago (when I was five), we have both worked constantly and supported ourselves. We have had no council housing or food bank donations etc.
However we do live around the corner from a girl I went to school with who had 3 babies by the time she was 18 so she never had to work, has still never had a job in her life and refuses to work.
How are we taking advantage of the system more so than people who are UK nationals with the thought they don’t have to work ever and everything will be paid for them?
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Unlucky? How do you define unlucky? Not all Eastern Europeans live in poverty and squalor and some do actually study here in the UK. My university in Portsmouth has a number of very good students who contribute enormously to the local economy and community.
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crabram
the soaring costs of benefits form over £100bn, which have remained almost static,until the 2013 figure of £205bn….has been caused by soaring state pensions costs, which was obviously well known would happen, and planned for….with the pension age escalator, this bill will now be drastically reduced…many will not reach the required 66yrs old to be able claim it + the claimable amount will be paltry or even non-existent, depending on NI contributions! much of the welfare budget comes out of NI contributions and is already paid for, by us….
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David Lindley, not all Eastern European immigrants are in the same boat, so to speak. Some do face a desperate situation, brought on through circumstances beyond their control. Some are actually facing a crisis which if any of us had to live through, would force us to pack what little we had and move to a country that didn’t threaten our very lives. Should we lump all of them together? Four hypothetical people move to the UK, one to study, another financially well-off enough to contribute to society, the third to escape horrible living conditions and the last to “sponge off the taxpayer”, yet we class them all the same. The UKIP party doesn’t recognize the difference, they see everything in shades of black or white, no pun intended. They would essentially close our borders to everyone; Immigrants and those seeking asylum. Compassion and common sense should win out, not blind xenophobia. unfortunately it always comes down to money. Money to deal with “the problem, money for care and money to help. The burden of which falls on the taxpayer. I’m not a religious man, but if I had to follow one lesson from the bible it would be the good Samaritan. If your fellow man is lying broken on the side of the road, regardless of race, religion, sexuality or even if he was your most hated enemy, the right thing to do would be to offer help. But then I’m also a lover of history, and I’m pretty safe saying that Britain was built on immigration, and neither of us would be here today if our ancestors hadn’t realised that the UK had some of the nicest land to build golf courses on.
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david
by all means see the post that i linked to…
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If this was Jersey or the other Channel Islands you’d probably find that any immigrant, even from the UK, would be 100% guaranteed not to get any benefits, tax credits or social housing. If you didn’t work you wouldn’t have money to eat or be able to rent a room. You’d get nothing off the State unless you’d lived there are certain number of years. Yet no-one seems to be attacking Jersey’s social policies.
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Clearly a targeted attempt to stiffle discussion on the topic of UK benefits for uk people. The author has a vested interest and would prefer that this issue is not debated. If the fact that the population is declining and we need immigration to make the ponzi scheme work then that is a specific and seperate conversation but is used to confuse the key message.
Happy for him to pay my tax share of the 55m a day the bureaucracy costs us, but I am not. The sooner this socialist apparatus is dismantled the better.
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alastair
“Clearly a targeted attempt to stiffle discussion on the topic of UK benefits for uk people.” to which uk benefits are you referring, uk welfare benefits or membership of the EU? this blog post is clearly concerning/about ukip’s policy on immigration into the uk, (see email exchanges)…not on the costs of uk’s membership of the EU, so no stifling of that debate is occurring…
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Some of them do not come here to claim benefits or work, but to steal. Do we send them back after we feed them in our jails?? No, they just out and steal again.
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Mr West is quoting the UK only figures. The 190 incomers were actually national insurance registrations, children under 16 do not register for national insurance, in fact there’s no requirement to register for national insurance, even for self-employed initially, therefore the numbers are likely to be much higher than that Mr West is quoting. The key means to define this would be checking the local school Doctors surgery data.
The data from Mr West’s link shows the international section as follows:
1877 new National insurance registrations.
•The number of non-UK nationals registering for a NINO has increased significantly since 2002.
•In 2005/06 there was a sudden increase in NINO registrations following the expansion of the EU, this continued to increase in 2006/07
•2007/08 showed that the number of registrations has begun to drop in some areas, while nationally the rate of increase in registrations has begun to slow.
It would also be interesting just by how much Mr West’s English language school benefits from the EU and immigration.
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The share is actually £6m per day – of course not including economic benefits of the EU, just simple how much we pay in (£11m gross) and how much we receive back in grants (£5m). It’s tough to admit, I know, but UKIP lie and distort their figures too. The figures are available on the EU website.
For reference, the benefits paid to people in work who aren’t even paid enough to live on amounts to £14m per day. The illegal methods of tax dodging cost us £96m per day, and including the legal means of tax dodging this would be at least 2-3 times higher.
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Why is the focus always on immigrants claiming benefits? I’m a card carrying UKIP member and an activist – but I know that the idea of immigrants ripping off our system is mostly rubbish.
Actually, I think that most of our problems are self inflicted. We have come to accept living on benefits as an acceptable life style choice. I am speaking from real experience when I say that some people are really milking the system (to a sickening level). The open door immigration with the rest of Europe is simply a means by which employers, and the government, can avoiding having the fix the actual problem.
Besides… isnt having an open door policy with the rest of Europe (Ie majority white) whilst rejecting immigrants from the rest of the world with the same skills much closer to the definition of racism than applying a blanket “skills based” requirement for everyone (regardless of where you come from)?
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Mono – cultural?
Official UKIP policy – implement a skills based points system that will provide equal opportunities for people to come and live here. This will give people from Syria, Australia and India exactly the same chance of being accepted as those from France.
EU Policy – An open door policy for people who happen to come from majority White – European nations. This in turn makes employing people from Poland cheaper than, say, Bahrain and reduces interest among employers to support applications from these countries (outside the EU). Isn’t discriminating against someone because of their passport almost racist?
I find it comical how people attack ukip for being nationalist while supporting a euro – nationalist agenda that doesn’t even support the democratic process. After all, our famed “High representative of foreign affairs & security” has never won an election in her life. Question : which ideology bared the closest resemblance to the NAZIS?
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… he says while….
1 – supporting an immigration policy that gives preference to people from majority white European countries over those from other parts of the world with the same skills (ie India, Africa & the middle east)
2 – championing a political system that is completely undemocratic at its core. For example; it allows people like Cathy Ashton to rise to be “high representative of foreign affairs & security” for an entire continent, despite never wining an election in her life. Further to this, she cannot be removed via the ballot box
3 – supporting the European economic community – an organisation that was conceived in 1942 by the Nazis.
4 – Supporting a group that, through the mingling of national laws, have removed the guarantee of not being imprisoned without charge & innocent before proven guilty.
How you can liken UKIP to nazis and keep a straight face, i have no idea lol
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What makes UKIP racist? No one seems able to tell me
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ben
“I’m a card carrying UKIP member and an activist – but I know that the idea of immigrants ripping off our system is mostly rubbish.”
you must be a member for a reason, what is it?
and the actual problem is? bearing in mind according to you, govts and employers don’t need fixing and by default not the problem…oh i see, we need leadership/to be led, to the promised land by thatcherite ukip, is that your solution!
ukip is regressive, imo all boarders should gradually open up….
the benefits bill how much is it?
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I like the EU. But then I work in the creative sector and the arts. The Tories have slashed funding for the arts in this country to nothing (in some cases, literally nothing, zilch, nada, not a solitary sausage) and the only thing actually keeping the arts sector alive at the moment is European grant funding. So the next time you hear UKIP ranting about how the EU is bad for our country or the Tories claiming that they support the creative industries remember this fact and remember it well. Of course, the knock on effect of the Tory attack on the arts is that the entire supply chain in the private sector has been hit hard by the sudden lack of spending on everything from skilled trades in the upkeep of gallery spaces to printing/promotional material and the manufacturers of the raw materials they utilise. For every arts programme cancelled there is a network of other businesses directly affected by it and the trickle of funding that the most savvy of arts managers have managed to procure from Brussels is just about supporting a skeleton staff with extremely limited budgets to spend in the private arena. The Tory party once purported to be all about small businesses, but their actions speak the truth to their lie and UKIP, well, they’re just the uninformed breakaway ultra-right wing of the Tories out to turn this country into a nation of casual labour service industries with no employment protections whatsoever.
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I don’t think their policies are. They’re certainly xenophobic. But the xenophobes who are drawn to them and some who are standing as their candidates are undoubtedly racist.
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‘DO GOODERS’ – I see this term tossed around casually as some sort of pseudo-insult quite often these days. It tends to be used by bigoted, selfish, uninformed people who can’t see the logical paradox they are creating by using it. It suggests that somehow to ‘do good’ is a bad thing. So if doing good is bad, then it’s not good, meaning you’re a ‘do badder’ which I presume by inference is good, once again making you a ‘do gooder’… and on and on and on… oh you get the picture (unless you’re in the habit of using the label ‘do gooder’ as an ad hominem, in which case all of this will be making a whooshing sound as it passes right over your head).
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Broadly, I agree with your points: about “lumping (people) together”; & the population of this island-group already being composed of immigrants.
However, I must take issue with your “example” of 4 people. I do NOT see any people coming here to “sponge” at all. Anyone coming to claim benefits would be seriously disillusioned in short order: they receive a paltry allowance of food VOUCHERS, not cash.
If fortunate enough to jump through sufficient hoops, plough through many unhelpful bureaucracies, and eventually get a grudging roof over their head, it will be temporary, & usually dreadful housing/ hostel/ bed-& breakfast room in a dangerous, hostile area – if they’re lucky.
If not so lucky, they end up on the streets, or locked up in large “detention centres”.
They’d have to have been in extreme circumstances to leave their Mother country, into the unknown and a language they do not speak.
This would NOT constitute “sponging”: rather, desperation.
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What nonsense!
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Or as Goebbels put it: “Tell a lie often enough and people will think it’s the truth”
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Reblogged this on ayeshazaria and commented:
Brilliant piece. Need to throw it in their faces like this man did.
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ben
reading your posts i get the distinct impression that you are your hearts not in it, just dump ukip, you know i make sense…
the points system, is abusive crap, that if ukip elitists get their way all but them, will be forced to follow…global warming/dimming/war is the biggest threat to humanity…approx 7% of uk land is built on the rest is m/t, build more eco-homes, work share, worker coops, food coops, food growing coops, eco-villages et al…a slave is a slave no matter their place of origin, we should not be enslaved by our physiology…no! to fake bo.a.rders, regression is not freedom…our currency comical more like tragic, can be exchanged for dollars, euro’s or any other currency, gold, dirt or bricks etc, the party that claims to hate taxes, wants to keep on overtaxing, in more ways than one! ..support a perma-culture ecological republic…”which ideology bared the closest resemblance to the NAZIS?” it is capitalism in all it’s guises…thatcherite opportunists tinkering with the defunct capitalist system is nothing new..no more war…what is ukips policy on ending global conflict? oh yes, attacking anything non-british…
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/28/britain-plutocrats-landed-gentry-shotgun-owners
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Which is why I used them hypothetically.
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Reblogged this on biomimicron and commented:
Lovely back and forth. Respectful, reasoned with a glorious finish.
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Interesting … how many of the ideas you listed above actually need us to sign away our freedom to an unelected foreign federal dictatorship? None
We can talk about climate change with people from all over the world without being in political union, so why do people think that we need to be a part of Europe to make an impact? Seriously, i would like someone to explain to me why
You do realise that UKIP were the only party in British politics that officially rebelled against the war in Syria right? If it weren’t for Farage, we would have probably embarked on another middle eastern war. I fail to see any practical support for you claim that UKIP attack anything that isn’t British
You asked (in a previous post) why i am a member of UKIP… I will answer, but i first i need to explain a little:
My academic focus has always been mathematics – for which I already have B.Sc. and im working towards my M.Sc. (Part time). specifically, i have concentrated on fluid mechanics & financial maths. However my passion has always been for History (antiquity, medieval & Modern European). I’d wager that I know more about History than i do about maths.
Now lets look at the EU, putting aside all ideology and looking at the facts only
The EU commission hold job roles that, in any other democratic country, would be reserved for elected ministers. Despite this, the people who now rule an entire continent cannot be hired or fired through the ballot box
The single currency cannot work – any intelligent economics A level student could tell you that. However, leadership are pushing ahead anyway. This currency is having the same effect on smaller economies as injecting super glue would have on your blood stream. In effect, it’s leaving nations on life support.
Britain can really be said to have single-handedly perfected the democratic process (through a unique combination of wars and rebellions). Right up until recent times, our model was the most stable in the world (which is why so many countries copied it). However the EU are throwing this model out of the window; preferring a model that is rife with loopholes and could easily lead to another dictatorship.
The EU is illegal. No nation has ever voted powers to it.
I really could go on all night…
Its not a question of what’s right about UKIP – personally I believe that they are homophobic… Rather, its a question of what’s wrong with the EU. The economic pattern that has been emerging for the last few decades have a striking resemblance to the situation before the American Civil war… except the Americans championed democracy over tyranny. .
In short, and i will now stop writing as i am sure you have already stopped reading. I believe very strongly that this union will lead to the next war in Europe (North against south). We already have powerful Nazi movements in Greece (and soon the EU Parliament too). I support UKIP because i want to know i did everything i could to keep democracy… even if i do not fully agree with the only democratic party in left GB. I hope this answers your question
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We’re all citizens of this spherical rock, borders are just invisible lines. Anyone who has the wherewithal and motivation to better themselves has every right to.
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ben
we need to share our bio-sphere, there are no borders….we cannot change our own “democracy” through the ballot box…we are ruled…and always have been…i happen to agree with mark twain..”if voting changed anything they would abolish it”…i have read your reply, but i still feel the same that democracy is made up of human beings where EVERY voice counts, no more war..we live in/occupy an oligarchy…we are ruled by corrupt dictatorship….being part of the EU or not changes nothing, merely rearranges the furniture, is pure distraction from facing the real issues of life and delays much needed global actions…that the recent activity of a disproportionately small number of the human global population has rapidly, beyond naturally occurring changes, changed our climate beyond the earths natural abilities to support/sustain human (vitality) life, is a fact…war/global destruction must be stopped, for all of our sake’s…to truthfully solve an equation all factors must be included, in the calculation…https://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/04/30/ukip-to-ban-teaching-of-climate-change-in-uk-schools/ the core focus of any political/social movement must be human rights, to drastically improve human wellbeing, to end global conflict, to reverse the impact of global dimming and warming….all political/social debate should be entirely focused on ending suffering…not profit for the few at the expense of the many…i support human perma-culture…it can be and must be done, the time for debate whether or not it needs to be done is over…
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Excellent post. Had to link it.
http://tocasaid.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/how-to-dismantle-ukip-in-one-easy-step.html
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I think UKIP should spend more time looking at working regulations, this poor girl above, having worked constantly since she was 5 and attending school !!
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I won’t be voting UKIP, but I’d like to point out that both their arguments are as poor as the other’s.
The UKIP secretary said “flocking into Britain”, which the resident took to mean “flocking into Weymouth & Portland” when he provided the data.
This didn’t say anything about the accuracy of the word “flocking” – I don’t claim they are flocking in, but this exchange provides no evidence that they are not.
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Reblogged this on Purplepantaloony’s Blog and commented:
Brilliant deconstruction of the UKIP argument
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What a load of rubbish you all talk. Have the sense to see OUR country is down the drain fast if we don’t see more Intelligent honest politicians and stop all profiteering ——-Barbara
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2.2bn/yr we could spend on schools or hospitals or paying off Gordon’s debt?
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Thank you Steve for your comments. I feel an enormous sense of relief knowing there are still sensible people out there who are not swayed by the constant Daily Mail/Sun crap that is spewed out everywhere we look. As with every country, whenever there is an economic downturn, or soaring social problems due to uneccesary government restrictions on freedoms,etc, it is always ‘foreigners’ who are to blame. This has always been the way, and we only need look to Nazi Germany to see how dreadful such misplaced and eroneous beliefs can be. I live in Spain and itr happens here. I work here, teaching in a school, preparing spanish children for a better deal in education, and yet I am on the receiving end of racist abuse, especially in the media. I’m not treated as badly as Morrocans, who are blamed for ALL the ills in this country, but i’m not far behind. The Chinese are probably just ahead of me, because they work 18 hours a day, seven days a weeks and make a success of business. Nationals don’t like that. Perhaps it’s envy, who knows. It smacks of racism though, and that makes it distasteful. I pay taxes, I do not claim anything. And yet, the perception is I am in some way taking a job from a Spaniard. Really? And what Spaniard can teach, in Englsih, and prepare their children for entrance into British universities? Many immigrants bring nothing but good to a country, very few bring ill, except when it is brought down on them by bigotted racists.The idea EU nationals wander around Europe looking for the best benefit deal and end up in the UK as it is number one is totally bogus. When is this crap going to end?
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That’s quite amusing, Barbara, when you look back over the years and realise people have always said that. Ever since we’ve had a government there have been issues raised that the people in power are doing it wrong. By that reckoning the country has been heading quickly downhill since the 11th Century.
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You play Golf? You are a Wanker of no significance.
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I think I love you…
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Why criticise and worry about EU immigrants only? Can’t you see that it’s all Somalis and all other ‘asylum seeker’ people crossing the borders at the back of the lorries and then breeding like rabbits that drain the system????
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